The Whisper.. "supposedly" revealed

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Flyonthewall
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The Whisper.. "supposedly" revealed

#1 Post by Flyonthewall » Wed May 02, 2007 12:32 am

Heya folks,

Saw this on YouTube. What do you guys / gals think? Any credibility? I would like to think this was actually said by Bob but I can't really be sure. :roll: :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MV7Sym8bIQ
"...Stay here, with me...."

The Search for Charlotte continues....

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#2 Post by Bren » Wed May 02, 2007 3:47 am

Well, it does sound reasonable to think he said that. Not sure how credible it is though, and personally I think they should just leave it and let the individual viewers make what they want of the whisper, after all, it is one of those particuarly interesting parts the film. :D
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#3 Post by 52FM » Wed May 02, 2007 10:15 am

My take on this has always been to think of this logically - Sofia clearly meant for the whisper to be private; but the scene had to be shot with Bill Murray actually saying SOMETHING; there were many takes according to what Scarlett said in an interview; she said Bill said many things - some funny, some serious, and she was an emotional wreck by the time they were done filming it. Obviously, Sofia used the take that best conveyed the emotions she was going for - what Bill happened to have said during that one particular take is not relevant.

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#4 Post by Pockets » Wed May 02, 2007 11:57 am

You're right about Bill Murray needing to say something, anything for the takes. So much of what we hear in any finished film for dialogue has been recorded in a sound booth (not on the movie set) and dubbed over after all of the many film takes are pieced and edited together.

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#5 Post by Bren » Wed May 02, 2007 4:41 pm

52FM wrote:My take on this has always been to think of this logically - Sofia clearly meant for the whisper to be private; but the scene had to be shot with Bill Murray actually saying SOMETHING; there were many takes according to what Scarlett said in an interview; she said Bill said many things - some funny, some serious, and she was an emotional wreck by the time they were done filming it. Obviously, Sofia used the take that best conveyed the emotions she was going for - what Bill happened to have said during that one particular take is not relevant.
Well, so much for people claiming they can figure out what he's saying. :lol:
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#6 Post by Tombo » Thu May 03, 2007 6:09 am

Hey,what a find!

I can't make up my mind it's the kind of thing I wanted him to have said (it is),or whether it sort of spoils the whole enigma thing. To me,the way they both parted,happy and smiling,suggests that they were somehow going to carry on where they left off.

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#7 Post by Pitman » Thu May 03, 2007 8:19 am

Tombo, I have to agree with you. If you look at it logically...Charlotte had found someone she could really talk to about things...she was visibly upset about Bob sleeping with Sausolito...down in the hotel lobby it was clear that Charlotte was waiting to hear something from Bob...he didn't oblige her at that time and she was again visibly upset as she entered the elevator to exit the building, also Bob had this pained look on his face as if he just realized he had lost out on an opportunity to give Charlotte what she needed...on his way to the airport fortune would give Bob one last chance to make good...he went up to Charlotte in the crowded side street of Tokyo, took her in his arms and whispered something in her ear...and that made everything better...so what was it?

Well, he had already given her support in the area of her writing..so that wasn't it...some suggest it had to do with her husband, but again this doesn't make sense because Charlotte was upset with Bob in the end and John wasn't the issue at that moment...Charlotte had met a kindred spirit, someone she felt safe with, not in a romantic way, someone in whom she could confide....and now this was coming to an end? No, there could be nothing else whispered to her at that moment which would have given her and him such relief and resolve but to assure her that he would be there for her as her friend when she got back to the US. Having found such a special connection as this, she was visibly uspset because it was coming to an end. This is so evident. Bob was letting it come to an end. Until he whispered those fateful words to her to assure her now this was not the case. What they had discovered in Tokyo, their friendship, would now be an ongoing thing. Thus, she was relieved. And he was content.

Common sense...if you find and connect with someone in such circumstances and are awake enough to recognize this, you would not just walk away from it. I think the movie's underlying theme of being awake is testimony to this...are we awake enough in our lives to recognize these connections...furthermore, are we awake enough to not let them slip through our fingers.

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#8 Post by 52FM » Thu May 03, 2007 10:21 am

Pitman - I like your analysis a lot. It's the best one I've read in favor of the notion that they get back together somehow, someway. Personally, I don't subscribe to that point of view - but I must say your treatment is compelling in that you equate it with the whole "awake" theme.

I've not listened to this clip yet, but I do hold to my theory that the specific words used on the specific take that was selected have no relevance.

I read somewhere a while ago someone applying sound filters to the clip and saying what he/she heard. In the spirit of saying it's not relevant, I won't repeat it here - but for what it's worth (that is, essentially nothing) it was words of encouragement and not an offer of further support.

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#9 Post by Pockets » Thu May 03, 2007 12:18 pm

Another vote for leaving their parting words ambiguous. I listened to the clip twice and found what Bob said too simple, even keeping in mind that he was in a hurry to get to his flight. I agree that he regretted not being about to say something significant to Charlotte in the lobby, so he had a few minutes in the limo to dwell on what he would have wanted to tell her but didn't.

In my mind, I thought Bob's parting words would have been more along the lines of what Humphrey Bogart said at the end of Casablanca. And from the way the scene was shot, it didn't seem like Bob gave Charlotte a way to contact him later on discretely (without his wife or publicist knowing).

LiT is such a beautiful movie and with such a naturalistic style to it. Just like taking a candid picture and later on, cropping out the messy bits to make it a better composition. And that's why the ambiguous ending was best. Maybe they did hook up as a couple later on, but what about Bob's wife and kids? Messy. Or maybe later on, Bob looks her her through her husband's business and he has a friend hire her to some scriptwriter's assistant and they stay friends more professionally.

The ambiguous ending is also perfect because it appeals to a wider audience. I almost suspect (from noting the predominance of men on this forum), that subconsciously, you are all Bob's hoping for their own young Charlotte/Scarlett to walk into their lives. The fantasy that even a average looking kind of guy, no matter what his age, has a chance at someone as young, beautiful, sweet and smart as Charlotte was in the movie, that even the right set of circumstances, anything is possible.

As a woman, I loved that in this movie Charlotte got to realize that her marriage is a dead end and that she needs to return to her passion of writing. She finds a man who she can really talk to (the stereotype being that most men don't like to listen to their womenfolk talk). And I also loved seeing Tokyo from the movie's point of view. But frankly for me, the movie was not a romance, it was just about a odd friendship due to circumstance. Bill Murray as Bob, just didn't do it for me. My heart just doesn't beat faster when I see him in this movie. And I am not someone that dates based on looks.

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#10 Post by Pockets » Thu May 03, 2007 12:42 pm

In case my previous post came across as too harsh, I just wanted to remind you all that I am all for people connecting with others from all walks of life. I think that there should be more friendships between people of the opposite sex and with age differences. You can't pick your family members, but you can pick your friends. Life is much better when you have good friends to talk to and hang out with. And even when you do find your soulmate, you still need the company of good friends. A journey of two soulmates without having other friends can still be lonely and definitely not as fulfilling a life.

So I see LiT more as two people thrown together, really connecting and that perhaps it's a start of a great lifelong friendship, but LiT is not a romance movie to me. Much like the friendship in the movie 84 Charing Cross Road with Anne Bancroft and Anthony Hopkins. And Bob having young kids also set this tone for me, plus the choice of Bill Murray as Bob. I just feel that the physical chemistry lacking between Bob and Charlotte. The two of them talking in bed was more like sibling twins conversing and finding comfort in each other's company. But this is only my opinion and the movie does purposefully leave their relationship very much open to the audiences' individual interpretation.

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#11 Post by Pitman » Thu May 03, 2007 4:16 pm

No doubt, the physical words spoken by Bill have little, if nothing to do with what the character, Bob, in the story was meant to have said to Charlotte. I'm not so concerned with what the actor Bill Murray may have said physically because like what 52FM said, I have read the same articles about the situation around the filming of this sequence. What we are concerned with here is what did Bob say to Charlotte. Of course it's ambiguous, and it's meant to be that way. And I respect Sophia to have never revealed what this may have been. Each of us will conclude for him/herself what these words were.

Pockets, I think you are overly fixated on the sexual aspect here. If you read my post you will see that I am speaking about Bob and Charlotte in a non-romantic way. I'm not suggesting they reconnect as a couple. But what I am suggesting is that a friendship, let me repeat, a friendship like this is worth keeping. This has nothing to do with Bob's wife, or Charlotte's husband. This is solely about a kindred spirit recognized despite a generational gap. It could have been any other kind of gap, cultural, political, economic..etc. When Charlotte was leaving Bob in the lobby, she was looking for something from Bob. In my opinion, Charlotte was hoping this friendship would not end. Bob did too but he couldn't bring himself to do anything about it at that time. His pain afterwards was sort of his wake-up call. He had let this friendship slip though his fingers.

During the "hey you" scene Bob had the opportunity to say quite simply to Charlotte something like..."I'm so glad I was given this one last chance to tell you I do value your friendship and please contact me when you get back at my agent's number." Something to this effect. Being famous, it would have been easy for Charlotte to find out who his agent was. Bob could have already whispered it to her. The point is, now Charlotte was feeling that her connection with Bob was something real...and not just a memory.

Who would be so happy after that whisper still knowing that a special connection would only remain a memory? I don't buy the "We still have Paris" thing. Charlotte was looking for guidance in her life. Bob was now offering her a way to continue the friendship and guidance.

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#12 Post by 52FM » Thu May 03, 2007 4:47 pm

I'm trying to hold back jumping in here (and obviously failed).

Just some thoughts - friendship is more important than romance. Ideally, people can find both in the same person. Bob woudl not have found a satisfying romance in Charlotte due to many factors (in my opinion). And also in my opinion, a natural and open friednship would have been difficult to maintain as well - for some of those same reasons.

When situations conspire to make a wonderful situation like that, often it is ephemeral. When the circumstances revert to "normal" - it just can't continue the same way.

The whole concept of having a close friend of the opposite gender when one is already in a committed relationship is tricky at best. For those who have expereinced that without stress - you are indeed fortunate. I doubt Bob and Charlotte could have done that with no impact to the relationship of Bob and Lydia (or Charlotte and John.)

And I agree with Pocket's statement that LiT was in no way a "romance" movie.

But I disagree with her saying that all the men on this board are perhaps 'dreaming' of a Charlotte in their life. I'm not - I had one about 15 years before LiT ever came out and my movie STILL isn't over.

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#13 Post by Pockets » Thu May 03, 2007 5:16 pm

52FM wrote:But I disagree with her saying that all the men on this board are perhaps 'dreaming' of a Charlotte in their life. I'm not - I had one about 15 years before LiT ever came out and my movie STILL isn't over.
Fair enough. I've actually been fascinated as to why this movie is not a "chick movie" but rather a film that speaks to men. And I part of my reasoning was the fact that other than Ith, I am surrounded by men in this forum. Message boards do tend to be dominated by males, but I've found some funny women's boards devoted to designer handbags and clothing. Then I feel that Charlotte is not a character than most women would want to emulate. And in the general terminology of this board, so many of you refer to your search for your true love as looking for your Charlotte. But for the women fans of this movie, I'm not sure that we are searching for our Bob.

My current LiT thoughts are that a Charlotte is a younger gentle soul grateful for the wisdom and guidance of the older soul, Bob. Bob sheds a little enlightenment on her and she is able to find a better path in life, one that is more suited to her calling, her passions. I think that my thoughts are influenced by the opening chapter of The Tale of Two Genji and other cultures beliefs of reincarnation, young and old souls interacting.

LiT is a beautiful movie and the ambiguous ending is perfect for it. And that ending keeps the wonderful poignant mood alive long after the credits have rolled. :)

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#14 Post by 52FM » Thu May 03, 2007 9:45 pm

Well, it's certainly not a "guy" flick either. Maybe it's a "sensitive guy" flick.

Somewhere on here I wrote a post a long while back where I guessed that a woman married for some number of years woudl be less likely to like this movie - and even less so if she had children. I suspect a woman like that might relate more to Lydia - and while she is not explicitly made out to be the "bad guy" in all this, some take that interpretation.

I think a woman Charlotte's age might be able to relate also - or someone who went through that conflicting time wondering who she was and where she was headed. I agreee that women aren't looking for their Bob - but I do think that younger women can be very open to support and advice from an older man - especially if she feels a comfort zone (that is, not feeling like the guy is coming on to her.) (That's where it all broke down with my Charlotte - once she began to fear that, there was no way to disapate that fear.)

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#15 Post by Pockets » Fri May 04, 2007 1:07 am

A film for the thoughtful sensitive male? Definitely not the testosterone filled guys that are drawn to movies like Sparta or 300.

Maybe for the younger women, it can give them hope that there are men out there somewhere who will listen to them, be their confidante and where having sex is not the goal. It's about having respect for the other person's space and having a mind connection.

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#16 Post by Bob_san » Sat May 05, 2007 2:20 am

I find it amazing that 4 years after this movie came out and 3 years since this website started, that people are STILL talking about and disecting this! And even from some guy who probably isn't even on this site who created that clip! So there are people out there who are still talking about it or just discovering the film and getting into the mystery of it. If Sofia had ever anticipated this it would have been better to put some digital muffle on it so that although it would still sound like it was muffled, any attempt to enhance it would be foiled! Of course assuming that person figured it out anyway which I don't care to speculate on and also because I don't necessarily want to know!

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#17 Post by Tombo » Sun May 06, 2007 8:45 am

Pockets wrote: I've actually been fascinated as to why this movie is not a "chick movie" but rather a film that speaks to men. And I part of my reasoning was the fact that other than Ith, I am surrounded by men in this forum.
It's funny...until I read the above,Pockets,I'd never really noticed the demographic before.
I saw LIT originally at the cinema when it was first released;I saw it with my then GF,who was (is) 12-13 years younger than me...it seemed to speak to us equally,in that we couldn't stop talking about it afterwards. Perhaps,judging by the composition of this forum, LIT leaves more of a mark on more emotionally-aware men 'of a certain age' ...which is a remarkable feat of insight on the part of LITs young,female writer and director.

Tom xx

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#18 Post by Pockets » Sun May 06, 2007 12:30 pm

Has anyone else read this webpage on LiT yet? There is much discussion on the "whisper" and also the women viewers seem more obsessed with finding out where to buy a sakara (pink paper cherry blossom spray)...

http://www.felixsalmon.com/000189.html

Anyway, I like one of the interpretations on that page that the movie is about two people, lonely despite being married... Bob's wife is all wrapped up in home redecorating and Charlotte's husband's in his photography career. Neither of the two couples are talking to each other as soulmates. Then after Bob and Charlotte's encounter in Tokyo, Bob returns home determined to make his marriage a better one and be an improved father, while he tells Charlotte "to tell the truth to him (her husband)" on the airplane ride home, meaning to be true to herself and make sure that her needs are being met in their marriage.

I think also on this page, someone suggested that Bob's fling with the lounge singer may have been him taking an opportunity to grenade the growing feelings that Bob was aware were developing on both sides between himself and Charlotte. And also was something that wasn't unusual behavior in his travels away from his family, especially being a celebrity.

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#19 Post by Pitman » Wed May 09, 2007 8:58 am

Cool webpage.

On the other hand, I don't see Bob mentioning Charlotte's husband in the end scene. I mean, why would Charlotte want some obvious advice regarding sharing feelings with the old man? Would that make her shine the way she did? No. I don't think so. Charlotte's a bright girl, she could have figured that out for herself. Same with the writing thing. Bob says, he's not worried about her. She'll figure it out. By the time we get to the "hey you" scene, it wasn't John, it wasn't the marriage, that was concerning Charlotte, it was Bob. It was the ending of a friendship she was feeling ill-at-ease with. To me, there's just no doubt about that. The lobby scene is evidence of that. This special connection, this kindred friendship which blossomed over a week's time in the most unlikely conditions, was now in jeopardy of becoming just a memory. Charlotte's face didn't brighten up because Bob said to her...go fix your marriage. Not a chance, it was Bob's offer of continuing the friendship and support which finally relieved Charlotte. She could now relax knowing there was someone she could relate to back home. Someone she could continue to find support in through her life, her marriage, her career. If Bob were to say in effect, "well kid, this is the end of our friendship, tell John how you feel," I just can't accept that would please her. It just doesn't make sense. And when something doesn't make sense, it usually isn't true.

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#20 Post by Pockets » Wed May 09, 2007 11:38 am

Let's say that Bob told her to tell her husband the truth about her week and her needs (what she wants out of her life). To me, it would tell her that Bob cares about her and her dreams, that their time spent together was special and not something to be ashamed of (cheating on their spouses emotionally). Anyway, it is interesting that the story is about two MARRIED people with one of them additionally encumbered by kid.

The whisper reminds me of a favorite old movie of mine, The Conversation with Gene Hackman. In LiT, while we are shown many intimate moments between Bob and Charlotte, we are never privy to any of their inner thoughts via voiceover. And if another character (like a hotel worker) in the movie had been shadowing them and wasn't able to see past the hotel room doors, they would have jumped to the conclusion that Bob and Charlotte had had a physical affair. Instead, Bob and Charlotte have this incredible non-sexual connection/friendship. The lounge singer is also there in part to show how unspecial their encounter could have been. Bob had it in him to have made his encounter with Charlotte just a common fling, but he didn't. The kiss on the lips changes his fatherly attitude to one of them parting as equals, which Charlotte would have also relished.

And as to what really happened between Bob and Charlotte, if each had been asked separately to write down their individual perspectives of their encounter, each story would have been different, down to how each of them felt while walking away from the whisper.

Otherwise, in the short whisper scene, I don't see how Bob and Charlotte would have arranged to contact each other later on in the States without their spouses getting involved. The whisper was some sort of farewell and closure. To say that he loved her, would have given Charlotte false hope of a future together, interfered with her current state of matrimony and made their encounter less special imo. Charlotte seems very young and pure in soul in the movie, which is another reason that for me, the whisper wouldn't have had anything to do with extra marital thoughts on her part. Her unjaded purity was a good influence on Bob, almost like a good fairy spirit trying to lead Bob to have a better marriage once he gets home.

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