Every now and then I get a glimpse of what it could be like. I hear Donovan Leitch playing in my head:
"Can I believe what I see? All I wished for will be!"
And then the next day it's cruelly taken away.
Every now and then...
Moderator: Bob
I admire your dedication to keeping young family intact. Think of the good sessions as a spell of rainy weather with occasionally sunny moments as they break through the clouds. The contrast between the rain clouds and the sunny times, makes the bright moments sweeter than if it was sunny all of the time. Speaking of which, how's your weather been in Chicago? Hang on until spring when all of us northerners will feel better. My backyard is a mudbath every day that the temperature gets above freezing. Yuck. Then when my boyfriend comes home from work, stomps into the house and announces that we need to buy a truckload of gravel for the driveway and parking areas. However, I've lived here for about 12 years, and I accept that once a year, the yard and driveway get muddy. And the ground needs the moisture to store for later on in the warmer and dryer months.
I guess my suggestion would be when things look bleak, turn to your kids for love and support. Do they have any idea of how hard you are working to keep everyone together? Can they help your wife in any small ways to keep a better mindset?
In my past, my dogs have been a huge source of comfort for me. No human can ever love another human so unconditionally. And as they cannot speak, they can never put a paw in their mouth and say the wrong things. I also find comfort in looking through my antiques collection. In holding a treasure, I feel special already, as a museum will never let the public handle any of theirs. Then I also remember the excitement of finding each piece and especially if I found it way underpriced.
I also enjoy rereading favorite books read in a happier time. Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass works for me. Also, reading love stories like Jane Eyre and Mishima's Sound of Waves. There is comfort in knowing that the stories end well, as they all should. Order in the universe is then restored.
Yesterday, I listened to a segment on NPR about the current state of the Katrina victims. Sad and upsetting to say the very least.
Lastly, I watched some of Discovery Channel's show on the development of man. The show had actors in the background, depicting how life might have been for the Neanderthal and Cro-Magnan people. And it was all so primitive, and they didn't have words to speak to each other. Thinking of each race eking out their existence in the harsh environment of our planet for about 10,000 years each make me feel very grateful for living NOW. And it only makes the time I have left with my boyfriend so very short, just a speck in the grand timeline of the universe. Eek.
Good luck to you! And your life is much better than you think it is. Try to look at your water glass as being half full.
I guess my suggestion would be when things look bleak, turn to your kids for love and support. Do they have any idea of how hard you are working to keep everyone together? Can they help your wife in any small ways to keep a better mindset?
In my past, my dogs have been a huge source of comfort for me. No human can ever love another human so unconditionally. And as they cannot speak, they can never put a paw in their mouth and say the wrong things. I also find comfort in looking through my antiques collection. In holding a treasure, I feel special already, as a museum will never let the public handle any of theirs. Then I also remember the excitement of finding each piece and especially if I found it way underpriced.
I also enjoy rereading favorite books read in a happier time. Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass works for me. Also, reading love stories like Jane Eyre and Mishima's Sound of Waves. There is comfort in knowing that the stories end well, as they all should. Order in the universe is then restored.
Yesterday, I listened to a segment on NPR about the current state of the Katrina victims. Sad and upsetting to say the very least.
Lastly, I watched some of Discovery Channel's show on the development of man. The show had actors in the background, depicting how life might have been for the Neanderthal and Cro-Magnan people. And it was all so primitive, and they didn't have words to speak to each other. Thinking of each race eking out their existence in the harsh environment of our planet for about 10,000 years each make me feel very grateful for living NOW. And it only makes the time I have left with my boyfriend so very short, just a speck in the grand timeline of the universe. Eek.
Good luck to you! And your life is much better than you think it is. Try to look at your water glass as being half full.
There was an issue with my oldest son, his girlfriend, and jealousy (insecurity) of her continued friendship with an ex-boyfriend. My wife understood his feelings and essentially felt he was right to object. His friends understood his feelings and essentially felt he was right to object. Her friends understood his feelings and essentially felt he was right to object. He asked my opinion – and I gave it to him.
Me - “Do you trust her?”
Him – “Of course.”
Me – “Then why would you insult her by feeling this way – and worse, getting so many other opinions telling you you’re right.”
Him – “That’s exactly what she said.”
Me – “She is being honest with you – what a gift! What else matters?”
A longer discussion ensued that essentially ended with
Him – “So you’re saying that the only thing that matters is her feelings and my feelings – and not what other people think I should think?”
Me – “Of course! You two have the foundation for a beautiful relationship.”
(And to myself I said: “And I envy you tremendously!”)
Later that day, my wife paid me an amazingly sincere, loving compliment. “You are such a wonderful father – they are SO lucky to have you.” (In addition to this, we had an issue with my daughter the same weekend that she feels I handled better than her. She was really admiring the calm and caring way I handled the issues.)
And I allowed myself to think:
“Trust me, the way our son should trust his girlfriend. Do it – do it NOW! Do it RIGHT NOW! I’ll probably carry you upstairs and make love to you so beautifully the angels would cry! I will drop all the work I have to do today and spend every minute gazing into your beautiful eyes. I would feel a natural rush that could never be described. PLEASE – this is where it NEEDS to happen!”
But of course I didn't dare push it; my son didn't need to hear us argue as my wife would likely object. (After all, "their generation is very different than ours" - which she did say earlier in the discussion.)
And then the next day – she began to side with my son’s insecurities again and twisted the situation into his fault for asking “strangers” for support; making none-too-subtle comparisons with her objections to me (forgetting at the moment that I tried to talk to her for months before getting support from "strangers" – but I couldn’t bring that up because it was my son’s issue that was important at the moment – not ours.
In privacy, he acknowledged that he was too much like his mother when it came to jealousy or insecurity. I said you’re wise for seeing it and trying to do something about it. “But how can I?” he said. I said “That wonderful woman you have this relationship with will be the key to you becoming what you want. Can’t you see? She WANTS you to – look what that SAYS about how she feels about you.”
And then I thought of what it really says about my wife…
Me - “Do you trust her?”
Him – “Of course.”
Me – “Then why would you insult her by feeling this way – and worse, getting so many other opinions telling you you’re right.”
Him – “That’s exactly what she said.”
Me – “She is being honest with you – what a gift! What else matters?”
A longer discussion ensued that essentially ended with
Him – “So you’re saying that the only thing that matters is her feelings and my feelings – and not what other people think I should think?”
Me – “Of course! You two have the foundation for a beautiful relationship.”
(And to myself I said: “And I envy you tremendously!”)
Later that day, my wife paid me an amazingly sincere, loving compliment. “You are such a wonderful father – they are SO lucky to have you.” (In addition to this, we had an issue with my daughter the same weekend that she feels I handled better than her. She was really admiring the calm and caring way I handled the issues.)
And I allowed myself to think:
“Trust me, the way our son should trust his girlfriend. Do it – do it NOW! Do it RIGHT NOW! I’ll probably carry you upstairs and make love to you so beautifully the angels would cry! I will drop all the work I have to do today and spend every minute gazing into your beautiful eyes. I would feel a natural rush that could never be described. PLEASE – this is where it NEEDS to happen!”
But of course I didn't dare push it; my son didn't need to hear us argue as my wife would likely object. (After all, "their generation is very different than ours" - which she did say earlier in the discussion.)
And then the next day – she began to side with my son’s insecurities again and twisted the situation into his fault for asking “strangers” for support; making none-too-subtle comparisons with her objections to me (forgetting at the moment that I tried to talk to her for months before getting support from "strangers" – but I couldn’t bring that up because it was my son’s issue that was important at the moment – not ours.
In privacy, he acknowledged that he was too much like his mother when it came to jealousy or insecurity. I said you’re wise for seeing it and trying to do something about it. “But how can I?” he said. I said “That wonderful woman you have this relationship with will be the key to you becoming what you want. Can’t you see? She WANTS you to – look what that SAYS about how she feels about you.”
And then I thought of what it really says about my wife…
Don't be too harsh on your wife for being herself. It's going to eventually boil down to whether or not you want to choose to live with a person like her.52FM wrote:And then I thought of what it really says about my wife…
My mom is someone who will never change her ways. To her, it feels right to be the way she is... which makes everyone else against her ways wrong. From her generation and being Asian, she will never go to a shrink willingly, and if she was forced to, she wouldn't participate. In addition, she would also be horrified at people taking advice from strangers on the internet. The internet is just too new fangled to her and she, suspicious of those who are on it.
I knew a antique customer who would only buy an item directly from the shop owner, never from the help. He wanted to make sure that he got a fair deal and needed to look into the dealer's eyes in order to do so. Even talking to the owner by phone wasn't good enough for him.
And in regards to your wife being more objective about your son's situation, but not the one between you and her, well that is my mom too. She often liked to say that she's a better mom to strangers than to her own kids. When you give advice to others, there is just less emotion and ego involved. At the end of my last relationship, when we would try to break a cycle of negativity or bad patterns, it was hard as one of us would bring up some past identical incident... like we were keeping score. It's human nature to keep track of our wins and losses, and so very difficult to let go and keep the eyes ahead. Most battles are not worth fighting, but old habits die hard.
I think that Ith and I would both prefer you move on, but it's for you to decide how important it is to stay together. Hopefully it's for more than just a sense of duty, and determination to prove to your wife that you are a good faithful husband. You don't need to prove to anyone that you can stay faithful and keep your word. You seem like a very good person to me. We've all made some mistakes in life, your Charlotte was so long ago. No need for you or your wife to keep beating that dead horse.
I truly appreciate all the support. It means very much to me. Somehow the words sound perfunctory - typing doesn't show sincerity, but it is really there.
We are at a critical point - finally. It's best that I not spend time venting here and let this process work. Hopefully, this can be the last one. I am annoyed at the fact that the process will evolve slowly - since we can only afford counselling every other week. But I am going to try to justify going every week for a while so we don't lose momentum. I am taking on a tutoring job at a local high school to make more money - that will pay for one more session each month until the school year is over.
Last night's session was the most contenious we've ever had. And while I don't want to pass judgement on our counselor's methods, I dare say it seemed to "wake him up" in a sense. He quite forecefully tried to make my wife see how the trust in me she proclaims comes with conditiions (though he failed - as our conversations on the way home revealed. But the point was made - and remade by me in and out of that session) And he quite forcefully made me see that I have begun to take my feelings out on her to a destructive degree. He said "at the very least - you have to treat her no worse than you would a perfect stranger." I acknowledged that to him and to my wife (and to all of you - which in a sense keeps me honest to myslef.)
So we're coming up with lists of major issues as we see them. And this morning we argued because my wife expressed surprise that a particular issue made my list. And I expressed disapointment that she didn't realize how important it was. And that it wasn't the specific nature of it - but how it represented a condition, or a line, or a sense of how she feels that she trusts me so long as that issue is never broached again. And off we went yet again -
I knew she wanted it off the list so that she could avoid it - that she knew she could agree on all the changes and items I want - except that. That at the end she could say "all the items on your list on resolved - so why are you spoiling it by bringing this up?" I KNEW that; but she wouldn't admit it. I knew she woudl go through counseling for YEARS simply to avoid it. And the fear it truly represents. The fear the counselor sees.
And then - the fear came out yet again as she called me this morning on my way to work. She acknowledged the fear that talking to people "on the internet" brings out in her. "It's too easy to get involved with a person and see them in a way that is unrealistic." In other words - her own feeliings of inadequacy coupled with a lack of trust in my judgement makes her want to create a situation where "temptation" is avoided. Or something like that.
So that is why is HAS to be on my list. Yes - it may appear to my wife as being too specific - that we should talk about feelings and not examples. But I know we can almost pretend that everything is OK without that issue; she can claim that she trusts me fully (as long as we don't bring THAT up). And we can go on trying to "fake it until we make it" as our counselor suggested we try (and I STRONGLY objected to, becuase that's EXACTLY what my wife wants - pretend like everything is OK; and then one day when I remind her that I'm unhappy - she'll express shock and say "but you SEEMED so happy!". That solves nothing.)
Her reaction to this issue is EXACTLY why I KNOW she is not REALLY over the "Charlotte" incident. And I've said many times I cannot continue to live with her, knowing she still brings it up as an example of this fear she is referring to. She admits it's the ONLY example - and realizes it's about 18 years ago now - but then denies that she's not over it.
Her fear - I will find someone I'd rather be married to and then I'll leave her. If she can prevent me from finding that person, I'll always be there. And paradoxically, it's that lack of trust/respect/disgnity that makes me think that maybe I really DON'T want to married to her.
So once again - we're right there and this time I have to keep pushing to get the issues resolved and not pushed off.
If we don't - then her worst fears will come true anyway.
We are at a critical point - finally. It's best that I not spend time venting here and let this process work. Hopefully, this can be the last one. I am annoyed at the fact that the process will evolve slowly - since we can only afford counselling every other week. But I am going to try to justify going every week for a while so we don't lose momentum. I am taking on a tutoring job at a local high school to make more money - that will pay for one more session each month until the school year is over.
Last night's session was the most contenious we've ever had. And while I don't want to pass judgement on our counselor's methods, I dare say it seemed to "wake him up" in a sense. He quite forecefully tried to make my wife see how the trust in me she proclaims comes with conditiions (though he failed - as our conversations on the way home revealed. But the point was made - and remade by me in and out of that session) And he quite forcefully made me see that I have begun to take my feelings out on her to a destructive degree. He said "at the very least - you have to treat her no worse than you would a perfect stranger." I acknowledged that to him and to my wife (and to all of you - which in a sense keeps me honest to myslef.)
So we're coming up with lists of major issues as we see them. And this morning we argued because my wife expressed surprise that a particular issue made my list. And I expressed disapointment that she didn't realize how important it was. And that it wasn't the specific nature of it - but how it represented a condition, or a line, or a sense of how she feels that she trusts me so long as that issue is never broached again. And off we went yet again -
I knew she wanted it off the list so that she could avoid it - that she knew she could agree on all the changes and items I want - except that. That at the end she could say "all the items on your list on resolved - so why are you spoiling it by bringing this up?" I KNEW that; but she wouldn't admit it. I knew she woudl go through counseling for YEARS simply to avoid it. And the fear it truly represents. The fear the counselor sees.
And then - the fear came out yet again as she called me this morning on my way to work. She acknowledged the fear that talking to people "on the internet" brings out in her. "It's too easy to get involved with a person and see them in a way that is unrealistic." In other words - her own feeliings of inadequacy coupled with a lack of trust in my judgement makes her want to create a situation where "temptation" is avoided. Or something like that.
So that is why is HAS to be on my list. Yes - it may appear to my wife as being too specific - that we should talk about feelings and not examples. But I know we can almost pretend that everything is OK without that issue; she can claim that she trusts me fully (as long as we don't bring THAT up). And we can go on trying to "fake it until we make it" as our counselor suggested we try (and I STRONGLY objected to, becuase that's EXACTLY what my wife wants - pretend like everything is OK; and then one day when I remind her that I'm unhappy - she'll express shock and say "but you SEEMED so happy!". That solves nothing.)
Her reaction to this issue is EXACTLY why I KNOW she is not REALLY over the "Charlotte" incident. And I've said many times I cannot continue to live with her, knowing she still brings it up as an example of this fear she is referring to. She admits it's the ONLY example - and realizes it's about 18 years ago now - but then denies that she's not over it.
Her fear - I will find someone I'd rather be married to and then I'll leave her. If she can prevent me from finding that person, I'll always be there. And paradoxically, it's that lack of trust/respect/disgnity that makes me think that maybe I really DON'T want to married to her.
So once again - we're right there and this time I have to keep pushing to get the issues resolved and not pushed off.
If we don't - then her worst fears will come true anyway.
Two things, one is that the benefit of more time between counseling sessions give you both time to do your homework and get the most out of each session imo. Especially as you both are fairly set in your ways. You both going away and having a solid month of counseling every day wouldn't be the better way. Secondly, does your wife not work and bring in some income? Or are you the soul breadwinner?52FM wrote:I am annoyed at the fact that the process will evolve slowly - since we can only afford counselling every other week. But I am going to try to justify going every week for a while so we don't lose momentum. I am taking on a tutoring job at a local high school to make more money - that will pay for one more session each month until the school year is over.
So true! But it's human nature to take family and loved ones for granted. I see that in my family, they are so sweet and charming to total strangers and casual friends, but since family will always be there, once inside the house, all gloves are off and the frustrations of the day are taking out on each other. Your counselor made a very very good point there. With my boyfriend, I feel we work hard to go to sleep at night with affection towards each other in our hearts. I don't mind if he gets cranky with me during the day and we always talk things out. If one of us is really heated, we take a timeout for a while. However, by bedtime, everything gets calmly sorted out. I want him to feel that he can tell me everything. I am his sounding board, and he is mine. It's so important for a couple to be best friends with each other.52FM wrote:(Our counselor) said "at the very least - you have to treat her no worse than you would a perfect stranger." I acknowledged that to him and to my wife (and to all of you - which in a sense keeps me honest to myslef.)
And this also can be tied in with how she feels threaten by your internet friendships. We are all human with our assets and faults. No one is perfect. It's all about etiquette, presentation and choosing our words carefully before hitting the "enter" button. With the internet, we can do away with washing up and getting dressed before sitting down in front of our keyboards to communicate with each other. And when you want to be friends, you make the choice to be nice with your words. It's not different in real life.
Of course, your wife needs to feel that she can be true to herself, perhaps she needs to change her approach in how she expresses herself to everyone around her. For a true fresh start, you both need to court and woo each other again. I know as a female, when we is going on the first dates, we take a lot of time in what we wear on the date, in discussions, we act more feminine that usual and hardly eat our food. Later on, when battle is won, we tend to be more ourselves, be more outspoken, even bossy and we finish our meals down to dessert. lol. It's just the way it goes.
About your Charlotte. If I were friends with your wife (and not you) I would tell her very plainly to stop being a ninny and face the enemy of Charlotte's ghost. All these years later and she is your wife, not that Charlotte. Your wife won. Furthermore, there hasn't been anyone else. She needs to think more highly of herself and not view herself as some sort of consolation prize. And to quote a past president... "there is nothing to fear except fear itself".52FM wrote:So we're coming up with lists of major issues as we see them. And this morning we argued because my wife expressed surprise that a particular issue made my list. And I expressed disapointment that she didn't realize how important it was. And that it wasn't the specific nature of it - but how it represented a condition, or a line, or a sense of how she feels that she trusts me so long as that issue is never broached again. And off we went yet again -
And then - the fear came out yet again as she called me this morning on my way to work. She acknowledged the fear that talking to people "on the internet" brings out in her. "It's too easy to get involved with a person and see them in a way that is unrealistic." In other words - her own feeliings of inadequacy coupled with a lack of trust in my judgement makes her want to create a situation where "temptation" is avoided. Or something like that.
I would also tell her to stop wasting precious years of her life and yours fussing over your old indiscretion. She is crippling herself mentally and emotionally over this. I wish there was a counseling group for her to join called "victims of adulterers anonymous". I am guessing that she is too embarrassed to tell anyone of her friends about your Charlotte? Which is fine, but I think if she could do some serious girltalk with other older women, she would find that her situation is not unique and unless she moves on, it's only hurting her.
I understand her feelings of inadequacy. It's normal. May I suggest that during your marriage, there were the normal and typical changes that go with the husband working hard to support his family and your wife getting very involved with the raising of your children? No one is at fault, but married couples often drift apart during this time. The mothering instinct is very strong in women. When the kids are young, they take up a lot of the woman's energy and there isn't as much left for the husband. I'm sure that Oprah's had shows on this phenomenon. And it's not like you had your Charlotte while you were also courting your eventual wife. Otherwise, I feel that studies show that when your mate goes astray, it's usually due to not getting enough attention at home. Again, it's about treating your mate well, doing special things for them, laughing at their jokes, telling them that they look good. Out of the blue, my boyfriend will tell me that I look pretty or have a beautiful smile, to which I reply "only for you". And it's true, as I tend to scowl at stupid people. And we like to tell each other "thank you for being". Again, as her friend, I would tell her to go back into courtship mode for you.
I almost think it would be faster and cheaper counseling-wise for the two of you to be on Dr. Phil or Oprah.... j/k
Best wishes for you both.
I need to clarify, though you may realize it: My "Charlotte" expereince was an emotional (not physical) affair - a deep friendship (so I thought) that turned out somewhere to result in her ("Charlotte") despising me. My wife worried at the time that I was wanting to get a divorce - she admits sometimes that she felt that way almost since the day we got married, and she says feels that way now - though she refuses to see the connection with that and the issue of talking online.
When that feeling overcomes her - she gets very scared and lately has had physical reactions from it.
The behavior of acting out of fear of my leaving her has happened in various levels since we were dating.
And now, she is going from admitting her fears and insecurities (which helps us make progress) to denying them (maybe from fear that they provide justification for my unhappiness.)
Lately she has (on three or four occasions) specifically denied not only making certain statements that uncover that fear and insecurity, but actually denied any conversation about anythign remotely related even took place. Once she called me "delusional" and hearing things in my head. Last night she offered the possibility that I've been dreaming the things I think I hear her say. After a VERY long discussion, her memory of certain topics being discussed came back. I didn't care if she meant what she said the way I thought she meant it - I was just releived that she at least remembered we had the conversation. I was beginning to question my own sanity - and I told the counselor that point blank. He clearly saw the seriousness of what I was saying.
My wife has an issue of selective memory and actually (non-harmfull) false memories. That is, she tells "cute" stories of things that supposedly happened many years ago that I know in fact never happened. But they make a nice story and over time she has come to believe they actually happened. (The Goldie Hawn character in the movie she made with Steve MArtin comes to mind at the extreme.)
I fear now she is beginning to block out certain things she will admit to. She may fear they will help me "make my case" to leave her and therefore regrets admitting them and tries in effect to pretend it didn't even happen. She has trouble trying to explain things she says as it is - but when she says "I don't think you ever really understood what you did wrong in the Charlotte situation" - I can't take that any other way but to be hurt. Despite 18 years of guilt, grief, beating myself up, and a counseling session where I was near tears in describing it out loud to someone else face to face - my wife still thinks I don't get what I did wrong. And I expressed that hurt very directly right at the time.
Two weeks later, she point blank denies any recollection that the conversation even happened - not what she said and not my reaction. Essentially implying it happened in my head. She eventually acknowledged it - but only by luck; she said she felt that way becasue of support I got from another person who my wife claims said I did nothing wrong. Of course - that person never said that; and I never said that she did. What she did say in part was that it was way past time that I give up beating myself up; and in fact acknowledged that my wife had a reason to be hurt - just certainly not for 18 years. So of course I said "how can you have a reason for making a statement if you never even made the statement?" Gradually she remembered that she did.
She is caught between a feeling of wanting to work things out and a sense that she has to fight for her survival. And the more intense this gets, the more it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
When that feeling overcomes her - she gets very scared and lately has had physical reactions from it.
The behavior of acting out of fear of my leaving her has happened in various levels since we were dating.
And now, she is going from admitting her fears and insecurities (which helps us make progress) to denying them (maybe from fear that they provide justification for my unhappiness.)
Lately she has (on three or four occasions) specifically denied not only making certain statements that uncover that fear and insecurity, but actually denied any conversation about anythign remotely related even took place. Once she called me "delusional" and hearing things in my head. Last night she offered the possibility that I've been dreaming the things I think I hear her say. After a VERY long discussion, her memory of certain topics being discussed came back. I didn't care if she meant what she said the way I thought she meant it - I was just releived that she at least remembered we had the conversation. I was beginning to question my own sanity - and I told the counselor that point blank. He clearly saw the seriousness of what I was saying.
My wife has an issue of selective memory and actually (non-harmfull) false memories. That is, she tells "cute" stories of things that supposedly happened many years ago that I know in fact never happened. But they make a nice story and over time she has come to believe they actually happened. (The Goldie Hawn character in the movie she made with Steve MArtin comes to mind at the extreme.)
I fear now she is beginning to block out certain things she will admit to. She may fear they will help me "make my case" to leave her and therefore regrets admitting them and tries in effect to pretend it didn't even happen. She has trouble trying to explain things she says as it is - but when she says "I don't think you ever really understood what you did wrong in the Charlotte situation" - I can't take that any other way but to be hurt. Despite 18 years of guilt, grief, beating myself up, and a counseling session where I was near tears in describing it out loud to someone else face to face - my wife still thinks I don't get what I did wrong. And I expressed that hurt very directly right at the time.
Two weeks later, she point blank denies any recollection that the conversation even happened - not what she said and not my reaction. Essentially implying it happened in my head. She eventually acknowledged it - but only by luck; she said she felt that way becasue of support I got from another person who my wife claims said I did nothing wrong. Of course - that person never said that; and I never said that she did. What she did say in part was that it was way past time that I give up beating myself up; and in fact acknowledged that my wife had a reason to be hurt - just certainly not for 18 years. So of course I said "how can you have a reason for making a statement if you never even made the statement?" Gradually she remembered that she did.
She is caught between a feeling of wanting to work things out and a sense that she has to fight for her survival. And the more intense this gets, the more it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Last edited by 52FM on Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To clarify, I wasn't implying that you had a physical indiscretion. My bad. And with women, an emotional indiscretion is a far worse crime and more hurtful than a sexual fling. At least, speaking for myself and girlfriends.
I guess I am wondering in all these years if any other man has ever approached your wife and complimented her spontaneously? It doesn't have to go as far as being asked for a date, but just even bumping into someone in the vegetable aisle and exchanging a favorite recipe or some small talk after he holds the shopping mall door for her. It's such a wonderful emotional pickup when that happens... a chance friendly encounter with a stranger.
Am I right in thinking that your wife doesn't work or have to? What about if she could take a class in something interesting to the both of you, and in going to the class, you both with have something different to discuss and share. Plus she would make new friends too. When one is able to make new friends, it tends to also make us feel better about ourselves. I feel that your wife is too focused on looking inward at herself and the faults of your marriage.
Would medication help her? I wish that someone could give her a post-hypnotic suggestion to help her let go of the past, like in that Office Space movie.
I guess I am wondering in all these years if any other man has ever approached your wife and complimented her spontaneously? It doesn't have to go as far as being asked for a date, but just even bumping into someone in the vegetable aisle and exchanging a favorite recipe or some small talk after he holds the shopping mall door for her. It's such a wonderful emotional pickup when that happens... a chance friendly encounter with a stranger.
Am I right in thinking that your wife doesn't work or have to? What about if she could take a class in something interesting to the both of you, and in going to the class, you both with have something different to discuss and share. Plus she would make new friends too. When one is able to make new friends, it tends to also make us feel better about ourselves. I feel that your wife is too focused on looking inward at herself and the faults of your marriage.
Would medication help her? I wish that someone could give her a post-hypnotic suggestion to help her let go of the past, like in that Office Space movie.
May I ask what your wife does for work? Does she love her job? The reason I ask is that since she seems to have feelings of low self-esteem, that's a separate issue for her to deal with. While you and your children can be supportive, having a perfect marriage is not going to make her feel whole and successful... or conversely, an imperfect marriage can't be blamed for wholly for the way the way she feels. So I wonder if her job igives her any sense of fulfillment for her. So many jobs are only a steady paycheck.
And I do have real sympathies for her, it's tough being a woman. We have a lot of multi-tasking on our plates. And even in successful relationship, it's all too easy for the "sexy" in us to get lost. For instance, guys seem to always have it easier being always in "the mood" for love, but our brains are wired up differently.
And I do have real sympathies for her, it's tough being a woman. We have a lot of multi-tasking on our plates. And even in successful relationship, it's all too easy for the "sexy" in us to get lost. For instance, guys seem to always have it easier being always in "the mood" for love, but our brains are wired up differently.
Okay. And has she had any separate counseling to deal with why she isn't happy with herself? Someone who is happy and confident with themselves is usually not afraid of losing their mate or if that mate isn't up to snuff, they are not afraid to tell that person to get the f- out of their life. At least that is what I have observed. The singles scene for people your age is incredibly active, so it's not like you both are beyond finding other people to date or marry.