my 'charlotte'

[I65]

"she has damaged her relations with family members, with friends, made even harder by the fact she is a foreigner and finds it hard to fit in. she has defied her culture and changed her lifestyle. at least with me"

She did nothing that she wasn't ready and willing to do. If we give up friends or family members for a "new love" then they weren't people that we deeply cared about to begin with. And as for defying her culture, I find it hard to believe that has anything to do with you. It sounds like a typical college student gone wild story. Regardless of the culture, there is a new freedom in going off to college that young adults handle in different ways. Her handling of her freedoms is in no way a reflection on you. These were her choices, which she would have made whether or not she ever had met you. And finds it hard to fit in? Maybe I am missing something, but everything that you have said about her so far shows that she has "fit in" quite smoothly to the college crowd.

"betray her trust when she had alienated all around her for me. "

Again, maybe I am missing something here, but short of one friend that had an unhealthy infatuation with her that she did not reciprocate (and who I believe you said she recently saw again anyway) who has she alienated for you? You speak of her going out with her friends, drinking and carrying on, without you. How is this alienating everyone for you?

"the letter i wrote was bitter and angry, and these are not things you can show so easily to one you love."

If you cannot share all of yourself with the person you are to spend the rest of your life with, then who can you? We all have ugliness and bitterness inside of us at some point or another. Your partner is the person who should be able to accept that ugly side of you, and tell you it is ok for you to feel that way, and then bring out your beauty.

Of course we are going to be supportive of you. And while you may feel that your descriptions of her have at times been skewed and negative have they really? I have felt that they were truthful. You haven't just come on here and talked about how negatively she has handled this or that situation. You often talk about shared precious moments, and the pure joy you get from being around her. If anything I think you have skewed her positively, and been more self depreciating than you have needed to be.

"but i can sincerely say once again, that she is worth the effort and care, because we still love each other (at least that is what she said yesterday before i left...) and i cannot sit idly by while there may be a way to salvage it"

Just be sure that while you are doing something to try and salvage it, you don't loose sight of yourself. You can't be anyone other than who you are, and if saving this relationship means giving up yourself, then it is not really you that is in the relationship to begin with. You have saved nothing.

[silvermoon]

sorry i havnt explained her situation as well as mine in the past, but there are things missing from her situation that i have not mentioned. and seeing as how it is very appropriate now, i will explain.

with regards to relations with family members, she has difficulty seeing as they all live so far away. i dont wish to give away details, so i will not reveal their exact relations, but certain people very close to her have been alienated because of me. i saw first hand how she both loves these people, from her behaviour and genuine joy to see them, and also how their relationship has been strained by my presence, because she insists on me being with her, but at the same time they feel awkward being around us. and when pushed to choose, she chose me (not every time, but generally), but i could tell her disappointment when making this choice, even though she was happy to see me.

her culture is a difficult one to understand because it is so strict and foreign. and when i say she has defied it, it is to do with our nationalities, which are different, and our ages, as she is slightly older than me. it is frowned upon by all those who share these beliefs, and she has become distanced from them due to unanimous disapproval. the conversation that i had with her a week ago, when she told me she had put up with this because her friends did not understand that she loves me so much, makes me guilty that i can have easy relationships with friends because of our slack beliefs, while her's are so restrictive, and i failed to acknowledge this. she would not have had these problems with someone who shares her cultural beliefs, yet she put up with them because she wanted to be with me.

she has found it hard to fit in because she only feels she can really connect with the select group of people who share her culture, those with the same nationality. this is because they have very distinct beliefs and ideas of leisure, which she cannot find in others. at the same time, those she has met have turned out to be less than respectful of her, barring one or two, and she does not think of them as proper friends. maybe if she had not met me, she would be able to engage properly with those who she really does connect with, but she has forfeited that so that i could be with her. i have tried to encourage her to meet people outside of this circle but she has difficulty due to language barriers, simple ignorance on their part, or just a lack of people who share even some of her sensibilities. she goes drinking with a small group of friends not from university, but who she had known before, and who will soon leave and move on. all those she can connect with are moving apart, and the one person she could share her time at uni with in a meaningful way is me. and i betrayed her belief in me, leaving her with noone close.

i would agree that she should accept the ugly side of my personality as much as my positive, but the words that i spoke that destroyed everything were related to this. i said that i had never hurt someone in this way before, but she took this to mean that because i had become more comfortable with her than anyone else before that i could unleash this side of me on her at will, and doubted very much that i could control it, to stop it from hurting her so badly again, even though it is not a side to me that ever comes out unless out of extreme circumstances (such as the other night). she actually forgave me and said she would accept this side to me until i accidentally said those words, and now she feels she cannot take the pain again even though i reassured her, honestly, that it was not a side to me that ever appears and is something i can control. but because she finds it impossible to trust me now, my words meant nothing to her.

i thank everyone for their support, which i appreciate and accept more than any other. however, i still feel i have misrepresented her by not explaining her situation fully. her mindset is obviously not something i can fully understand, but at least those things that bothered her have been overshadowed by my own concerns, and my opinion and situation becomes more important to all who read this. i cannot just ignore that she has had difficulties comparable to mine, and that the greatest injustice of all has been inflicted on her, no matter how she had taken it. i have told of my joy, and my sorrow, but never her's, and without this she is just a person who brings me happiness and pain but doesnt receive it. i have been very self deprecating, it is within my nature to be, but at the same time i do not fully appreciate other peoples' situations, so i downplay those as well, even though they mean as much to them as mine do to me.

and finally, i know that i shouldnt change for her just for her to accept me. and i wont. but i dont feel i need to. in the time i have known her, i have been myself, which not only made her happy but made me comfortable to be with her. until my outburst, which is not within my character usually, she had accepted me fully and never asked me to change, just as i did not with her. that is why i love her so much, because i was myself, i gave her my heart and opened up to someone for the first time in my life, and was accepted fully. and that is why i broke her heart, because she gave me all she had, and i did not feel it was enough, if only for one night.

i am becoming more anxious with every passing second of what to say to her when she replies to me, and whether or not to write her a letter of reconciliation, a declaration of my love for her, which has never diminished. i want her to know my true feelings for her at a time when she is not angry at me and is more willing to absorb it. i had considered showing her these posts to remind her of all the good things we shared, all the problems we overcame, until she said she wanted to forget and regretted the time we had together. i am so confused, i dont know what to do anymore. this situation is too difficult for me to handle. all i have is my love for her, and i hope that will be enough. i hope. wish me luck

[I65]

Writing can be cathartic. Perhaps composing the letter that you want to give her, whether you pass it on to her or not, will help to clear your head a bit, and keep your mind from going down the many different paths that this could lead.

I have faith that whatever she comes back with to you, whether it is all that you hope for, or all that you dread, in the end all things will work out as they should.

Good Fortune!

[Congruous]

Here's a completely different angle that may help you to understand why you feel so bewildered. A while back, didn't you say that your parents have a bad relationship? If this is so, could it be that you are unconsciously using some of their behaviors toward each other to respond to this young woman? It would be perfectly understandable for you to be using behaviors- albeit bad ones- that you had learned at home. If you are repetitively, unconsciously reenacting negative behavior, it would indeed make you miserable.

A way to combat this is to take some time to sit down and think about someone you know or are acquainted with who you admire for their pleasant behavior; someone who you are always glad to see, someone who always makes you feel good about yourself. Surely, being at school, you can think of such a person. Look at what that person does that is so appealing and ask yourself how you can incorporate some of that person's traits into your behavior. I'm not talking about your becoming pretentious and false. I'm talking about making yourself more agreeable to your fellow humans. This is much more difficult than I make it sound, but it is doable. When you become the person you want to be, a lot of the guesswork goes out of your relationships. You become proud and confident of who you are. You value yourself, and I'm willing to bet that at some point, people will start telling you how much they value your friendship. When you reach this point, you won't be mucking around in the doldrums trying to anticipate what this young woman is thinking. You will know she values you. Whether she wants to be with you is her decision entirely, and influencing her decision won't concern you as much as it is doing now.

[silvermoon]

thanks for the suggestions, all. i wrote the letter, 8 A5 sides long, detailing the mistakes i made, why i made them, and how i honestly tried to strengthen our relationship by identifying a problem and trying to deal with it, albeit very wrongly. i only ever did the things i did because i didnt want the problems to get in the way of us in the future, and now i hate myself for denying myself the happiness i sought to extend. i went on to say that i loved her, that i knew i meant a lot to her as well as her being important to me, that i am the best person she has ever met because i alone recognise how special she is and appreciate her for being herself, and how we can combat any problem together if she just acknowledged that we love each other and make each other happy. i hope she absorbs it properly, because i know my words to be true, that you cannot hurt someone who doesnt care for u in return. we both love each other, it is just a matter of her remembering this and overcoming her feelings of anger and pain to recover and be with me.

i met her friend, the one who liked her, yesterday. he seemed friendly, even thought he knew who i was. i talked to him briefly about his plans for the future, how he finds uni, the city. he replied with mild enthusiasm, in a friendly tone. i then asked him about her, and he told me he had met her that day, they had not talked about me, but she was ok. i told him i had wronged her badly, and that the next time he saw her i wanted him to take care of her and make sure she was ok, and not abusing her health. he assured me he would, and i left. but i fear greatly what she may do in her current state of mind, hurt and angry, with a friend who she confessed she shares many similarities with, but does not love. i dont know which of her words i can believe now, she embraced me warmly and said she still loved me the other night, yet the past 2 days she has ignored me and my txts, only replying coldly and bluntly on 2 occasions. i cannot tell if she still feels she loves me or has changed her mind in the past days, and i fear for what this may mean.

the previous night, she txted me in the early hrs of the morning to ask 'what's the matter?' i did not know what she meant by this, as it came out of the blue with no context, and i assumed she was either trying to reach out to me or had sent me that txt by mistake. i txted her back saying i had not txted her, but i was always ready to talk, and for her to call me whenever she wanted. she did not reply, and half an hr later i txted her again to ask if she was alright, and to take care of herself. again, no reply. today, i attended two lectures that she would also be attending. i arrived at the first, and she had already sat down somewhere she knew i would not be. i left the theatre after, turned, and she was walking 2 metres behind me, staring at the floor, but with a pained look on her face. i turned immediately and continued walking, and she dropped back behind me and slowed till i was far ahead. she headed in the direction of her home, and i watched her go, my heart breaking. she had told me her decision would be revealed today, and the nervous anticipation of before was now replaced with deep painful disappointment. i then txted her to ask why she had txted me during the night, and if she wanted to talk yet. she then txted the killer words 'what do you want to hear from me?'. i replied that i only wanted to hear what she had to say, nothing else. i told her that i know what i want and what she means to me, but i wouldnt tell her to say or feel anything she didnt want to, and just to take her time. she didnt reply after that. i attended the second lecture, turning up early to try to catch her, hoping she would approach me. i sat to the side, not too close to the door but visible to someone looking around. she came in, walked past me and headed straight in, sitting to the side where i never sit. we left once again, only metres apart, but ignoring each other, even though i wanted to go up to her, but knowing it to be a mistake. i went home, wrote the letter immediately and posted it through her letterbox. i heard music, peoples' voices and the sound of eating through the door, and i hurried away. i now can only hope she reads the letter and understands it, at a time when she has calmed down, thinking more rationally and more willing to hear my words.

i cannot take it any longer. my pain, my anxiety waiting for her reply, and what that may be, is tearing me up inside. i cannot sleep, my appetite is gone, she haunts my every thought. the more i try to distract myself, the more aware i become of how much i miss her, how lonely i am now, how much i would give for her to take me back. the future i had hoped for, sharing my happiness with her, is lying in ruins, and i am lost at sea with nothing to guide me. i can barely breath, my mind is a mess, pulled in a hundred directions at once. i cant focus, even on the words i am writing, my mind ebbs and flows without settling. every second that passes not only drags, waiting for her to talk to me, to acknowledge me, but brings with it the possibility of my complete mental destruction. the hope that she gave me with her last words, that she still loves me and something like what i did would not change that, has now dissipated into the past, and everything is uncertain. i dont know what to do, waiting is killing me and calling her in desperation would be a mistake. i cant end it, i promised her i wouldnt drink (why the HELL did i do that???), and i cant sleep, there is no escape. i've never felt misery like this before, and it kills me that i inflicted this on myself. tonight will be torture

[Congruous]

You are WAY too hard on yourself. Remember what Hull Street said. Get involved in other things, go out and run several miles, but don't sit there and beat yourself up over a woman when there are many more at your school who would be happy to have you for a friend.

Stop beating yourself up! You DO NOT deserve it.

[silvermoon]

tonight isnt torture. i'm at her place right now. she had met a friend tonight, and they had been chatting. at this time, i dropped off my letter to her, then ran away. she didnt reply for hrs.

but while i was at my lowest ebb, with a promise not to drink and unable to sleep, my phone rang, and my charlotte's name flashed up. i remember thinking 'oh sh*t...'. i ran out into the corridor, and nervously answered. the first few moments were uneasy, tinged with tension. i said hello, she said hello. i asked her where she was, she told me she was outside her room. i asked her how she was, she said she had been drinking. by the sound of her breathing, she had definitely been drinking. i asked her if she had received my letter, she said she read it as soon as i dropped it off. we talked, round and round, before i asked her 'why are you calling me?' she said i must know, but i said i wanted to hear it. honestly, i didnt know if she was breaking up with me or not. and then she said, 'because i love you so so much'. i confess that tears welled up in my eyes, i smiled a huge smile, and i told her everything; that i couldnt sleep, that i missed her, that i couldnt imagine my life without her anymore. i could hear her crying on the other end as i spoke, and she told me that she had felt the same, that she couldnt sleep, that she would see me and talk to me the next day. i told her i had never been happier than to hear this. unfortunately, our conversation was cut short, as she was audibly unwell, so i told her i would come and take care of her, and i rushed over here where i am now, watching over her as she sleeps. i cannot tell how much are her true feelings and how much is the drink, but i see my letter lying on the table and wonder what effect it had. i can only tell her true reaction in the morning, but in the meantime, everything has become clear again, i can think of a wonderful future with us together. i'm happy again

note: she called me about 5 mins before midnight, so her promise to tell me her decision within a day bizarrely held firm

[lemoncupcake]

I hope i'm not butting in here
Silvermoon i think you are definitely being too hard on yourself. I know how you feel i really do. In situations like this when we're putting so much of ourselves out there,the vulnerability of it all tends to make us harder on ourselves than usual.
In all situations in life,everyone has a different truth.
Maybe i've read too many self help books or watched too many talk shows but it sounds to me like this girl doesn't have a good sense of self. Someone posted earlier in this thread about how things have to be equal. I'm not doubting she's made sacrifices,and you have too. But from what i've read about her it sounds like she doesn't really have a good sense of who she is as a person,what she wants out of life,things like that. Until she figures that out it's almost impossible to have a true relationship with someone.

[adrien950]

But from what i've read about her it sounds like she doesn't really have a good sense of who she is as a person,what she wants out of life,things like that. Until she figures that out it's almost impossible to have a true relationship with someone.

From personal experience...I totally agree.

[silvermoon]

thanks for the comments. i would agree that her past experiences are holding her back somewhat, and she does need time to figure these things out. but i think that i need to be there with her, to support her, because from the way she talks she has never met a man who truly respects her as a person, not as a girlfriend but as a human being, and i'm the person to show her that by being with her every step of the way. it's like the film 'my sassy girl' (recommendation of the day, the more i think about it the more it represents my life...u wanna know wot i'm going thru, watch that), where a guy meets an emotionally damaged girl who may just be his soulmate and stays with her to help her heal her wounds.

i said in my letter that i understood that her reaction wasnt aimed just at me, but at every guy who had ever disrespected her. i told her that altho she meant a lot to me, i also knew how much i meant to her, that i was special, that she wouldnt meet anyone in her life who respected her as much as i did, who loves every part of her because it is what i have always wanted, not what i would change myself for. of course, there was no way of proving that, and afterwards she asked me with a smile how i was so confident that she still loved me, that girls can change their mind in an instant about anyone. i dont believe that, and i told her. everyone wants someone else who shows them respect and love, and noone would deny themselves that without an incredibly good reason. and at the same time, i cant give her up easily, because she is the first person to truly embrace me as a person, not because she has to or because of who i am in the way family can, but someone who met me and learnt to love me from nothing.

i would normally say this is my most traumatic week ever (just like the last 7... ) but really, in hindsight, i would have to say this is one of the best, because i found out just how much i meant to her when she called me, in tears, and told me how she couldnt sleep, couldnt eat, couldnt be without me anymore. for the first time outside of my direct family, i feel truly loved. its a wonderful feeling that i just cant give up.

note: okok, i got myself into trouble yesterday. i was very tired, and she was talking, and i was dreamily listening. she said something, and i said yes. turns out she gave me 14 days to prove to her that i love her, and i accepted. dammit...what am i supposed to do now? how can u prove something like that? she said it in jest, but i still wanna try and do it. but i cant think how. i was gonna take these posts and make a journal out of them like Ith mentioned way back when, but it's more appropriate for another landmark which she is looking forward to, our 100th day celebration (how grand a word. not appropriate, what else can i say...?). her culture takes this quite seriously, and just yesterday i was reminded of this when one of her friends asked me to write a postcard for his girlfriend who lives abroad, for their 100th day together. he was planning something big, and reminded me to do the same with my 'charlotte'. so many occasions, so few ideas...i suck...

[Just Like Honey...]

turns out she gave me 14 days to prove to her that i love her, and i accepted. dammit...what am i supposed to do now? how can u prove something like that?

It sounds like she is trying to cause some form of drama on purpose. Some girls seem to do it for some reason.

On the serious side though, why are you putting up with all this nonsense from her? From how the story is unfolding now, it appears as if she's just jerking you around as she sees fit (not necessarily meaning she doesn't feel strongly about you). Why should you have "14 days to prove you love her?". In all honesty, it sounds like she is trying to turn this into a soap opera. And I don't know where her head is at, but you don't just put someone 'to the test' like that, especially when there's a romantic involvement.

Remember that you're your own person and not just her puppet, I hope you initially wouldn't have agreed to this '14 days' nonsense if you weren't in a semi-lucid state of sleep.

[I65]

turns out she gave me 14 days to prove to her that i love her, and i accepted. dammit...what am i supposed to do now? how can u prove something like that?

All you can do is treat her in the same loving way that you have from the beginning. There is not a recipe for love, no set actions or words that you can do or say that "prove" you love someone. If there was, then you could just do and say those things, whether you loved her or not. If she said it in jest, then I suggest you take it that way, and let this idea go. Just be yourself, and it will show.

[silvermoon]

yeah, i would agree with both in that there is no way to show it with a particular action or with words, and that in normal circumstances i would not have agreed to it. but i think i understand why she said this, even if it came out in a slightly offensive way. i think the hardest thing about loving someone is being loved back. it's so easy to give someone special to u the attention and respect they deserve, to give them your heart. it's very difficult to accept that someone can give you all those things though, that you are so special to someone else, as congruous kindly pointed out in an earlier post. it's proved to be hard enough for someone like myself, who has never truly loved anyone, and noone has ever claimed to love me in this way, it must be so much harder for her as she has met people who have claimed that they loved her, people she loved herself, before they broke her heart. trust is very hard to give to someone fully because it can be used against you in a devastating way, and it's even harder the more people hurt you. i think she is simply trying to protect herself while also slowly trying to love me back. at times, the things she does and say make her seem difficult, and maybe she is having trouble overcoming certain things from her past, but i dont think it changes who she is or what she really wants, even if these things have become obscured of late. but i am confident that she will rediscover these things if i stay by her side, as she has already tried to confront these things for me before. i don't see this as a way of toying with me, but as a way of reaching out to me, to try to overcome her own past, our obstacles, before she accepts me wholly.

note: for a note for note account of my relationship, watch 'my sassy girl'. its very difficult to get hold of, but its a fantastic film in its own right, and to me its very personal due to its relevence. in the film, a guy meets a troubled girl who mistreats him because she is having so much difficulty getting over her considerable past, with a person she loved. but he perseveres because he recognises something special in her, despite her flaws. he sticks with her, and she slowly falls in love with him, and learns to trust him, and eventually the relationship, because of all the hardships and perserverence they have endured together, stabilises into something special. that's how i feel right now. it's like with lost in translation (which funnily enough described my relationship with another person in my life), that i always liked the movie, but appreciate it so much more with actual personal experience. anyway, if you can find it, i'd recommend it. there's something for everyone (shameless flogging one of my recent favourite films...good thing LiT we all know about or else it would be two films)

[I65]

10 days no update?

[Just Like Honey...]

I'm on the edge of my seat as well

[silvermoon]

as always, complicated and varied. many positives and negatives. to keep it short, and frankly i've ranted enough in the past, then basically we found a common ground in our dreams for our future together. we only discovered this after numerous misunderstandings, which lead to an upsetting night, which included 2 of the worst moments of my life where i thought that not only did she not share my dreams for our relationship, but also that i would be losing her. thankfully, for us both, we managed to clear up the misunderstanding and could afford to laugh about it afterwards. i think as time passes she is becoming clearer in her intentions, finding out what she wants, to the extent that she wept a single tear when i explained my hopes for a long relationship with her, and not just confined to our time in uni, but beyond that. she seemed genuinely happy to hear that, and i was happy to get such an emotional reaction. i am becoming more and more comfortable with the idea of a long lasting relationship with her, without going overboard. and it seems she is doing the same, as certain things she says alludes to the same train of thought.

the negatives on the other hand concern two things: one involving my previous charlotte, who is still a good friend of mine but my charlotte is having a hard time trusting us as being just friends with our past, and no amount of reassuring will change that despite our distance apart, and second concerns a night where we had made plans to go out, after i had finished work due at uni. so i completed it, and proceeded to her place to meet her and go out. i called her several times but she did not answer, and she had not called me, so i went up to her place. my phone rang, and i answered it, and knocked on her door as i talked. she eventually came out, with a look on her face that i knew meant something. i finished my conversation outside her door while she joined me, quietly. i prepared to go in, but she told me her friend, the one jealous of our relationship, was inside. i didnt know what to say, i tried to hold it together but i upped and left, simply telling her to call me when she was done. i went immediately for a drink to try to sort things through in my head. she called 30 minutes later, with a chirpy tone, and i told her i was going to meet my friends for the night, without having to say that our plans were off, and abruptly ended the call, with a strong tone of discontent in my voice. i felt so betrayed that she had not called me to tell me she had changed her plans, especially in this manner. but i eventually called her back and asked for an explanation, and she told me she had had a bad day, i was not there for her to confide in, and he was still a very good friend of hers who understood her, and circumstances meant she couldnt contact me. i forgave her on the spot, but i still feel i am too respectful a person and i worry i might be exploited by those who know. also, that night she told me a secret from her past that she felt ashamed of, that happened out of circumstance. i must confess that it stunned me for a while, and i said that i understood why she did it, but at the same time the idea is very strange to me. i am having a hard time seperating my view of her from this image. anyway, she told me this secret had ended some of her previous relationships (not necessarily boyfriends, but friends as well), and while it is not extreme enough to elicit that sort of reaction from me, i feel i am quite an understanding person, it is still very shocking. i hope i find the strength and understanding to fully cope with it. but at least i am happy that she is finally comfortable with talking of a future with me in it

[silvermoon]

today was a big day, one of the biggest in my life so far. it was the first day in our relationship, and in my life, that sex became a very real prospect. and more importantly than that is why it did not happen, but promises so much more, something else entirely. hopefully i will be able to put this as sensitively as possible. under normal circumstances i would tell noone these things, but for such respectable peers i feel prepared to do so here.

i stayed at her place last night. we slept, but woke together in the middle of the night. we talked in hushed tones, trying to sleep. i leaned over and kissed her gently, and she did the same for me. and in a flash, our passion grew. we stopped and started several times, talking about what we were to do, while holding each other and kissing fiercely. we were cut short because we are both responsible and continuing would go against that. and at a certain point, she told me she realised during the night she felt a little uncomfortable with what was happening, and she said words that i was so glad to hear, that she didnt want to do this without being sure it wouldnt harm our relationship. i told her, truthfully, that i wanted her love, not sex, that i wanted her to be sure before acting, that we shared the same feelings towards it. i think she was quite surprised by my maturity, which i do say confidently, because she felt she had made a mistake by allowing it to have gone so far before stopping, which of course was never the case. i told her that the only mistake would have been to allow it to happen and suffer the consequences after, and she had done everything right. she smiled when i said that all i wanted was to be with her as long as i can, that sex was of no importance and i didnt want it to cause problems in our relationship, which i do strongly believe. she is beginning to seperate her views of a typical teenager from myself, as i can say surely that i have a more responsible and mature attitude towards these things than many. we embraced, and she thanked me for giving her and our relationship this much respect. i was so happy that she prevented it from happening if she felt uncomfortable, because i would gladly wait an age if it meant being with her. her plans for the future the previous night once again involved me, up to 2 yrs from now, and i am so glad she feels that way now and can comfortably imagine us together. regarding the issue of sex, strangely despite it being so close to my first experience, i felt no disappointment at all that it has been delayed, if anything i was happy, because of the reason for it. i am finding our hopes and dreams are becoming more homogeneous, and we are becoming closer and closer, physically and emotionally. she's even speaking like me! i left her place earlier today, and we kissed and whispered declarations of love to each other. she seems very happy about what happened, and glad that she stopped, and i vigorously approved, and now does not appear to feel uncomfortable about it. i just wonder what our next meeting will be like. but i am fast growing up, and gaining in maturity with every passing day.

[silvermoon]

fgs...the problem with a relationship with a kind, compassionate, beautiful person is that you will always be surrounded by jealousy and anger. and these things seem to have a way of striking when you are at your happiest. and thus it proved today. so many things to talk about, so many questions, so few answers.

i came home from my charlotte's place today happy, more so than i may ever have been before. i had found i was in a truly adult relationship with someone who i love, because she shares the same dreams as me, and loves me back, and shows me respect. i had hoped the feeling would last for longer, but it appears the problem began even sooner than i initially thought.

she called me a short while ago, and i greeted her warmly, asked her how she was, how her day had been, what she planned to do for the evening. the tone was very light, and i was glad to hear she was not feeling uncomfortable from the night before. then she asked me if i had seen her friend today, the one i had tried to reach out to, the one who i felt sympathy for due to his situation, but who had admitted to being jealous of me and our relationship. he had been waiting outside her room when i came out today, not for the first time apparently (how he even got there, with all the security in the building, and without telling her he was coming, is a mystery, and quite a worrying one at that), and had spotted me coming out. he waited for 10 mins after i had left before knocking on her door. he said he had called her but she had not answered, the reason being she was with me but was occupied at the time, and i was there to witness that. she had let him in to her room (something i am no longer comfortable with again, and all things considered i don't see how i could be seeing the way he behaves), and they had talked. after 10 mins, he remarked, in an angry tone she said, that he had seen me leave her room. i don't know for sure why he was angry, and he did not say. but i can hazard a guess, and without wanting to enforce an opinion that may not be true on him, i would say that he is either angry she is spending so much time with me and much less than before with him, or that he is still jealous of me and does not like the idea of me being with her. apparently he tried to discredit me, by saying that reaching out to him before had a selfish motivation, because i spoke to him so that he might look after her while she was not willing to see me. to be fair, that was the main reason why i did speak to him, but only because i cared about her, and without being able to reach her myself i had no other option but to try to help her through her friends. yet he claimed that i did not speak to him much beyond that, which is a flat out lie seeing as i made a point of trying to get to know him, because i sympathised with his situation, asking him about his life at uni, his plans for the future. and yet he used this gesture of goodwill against me. and at no point did i do or say anything to benefit myself, i only asked him to look after her, his friend. at least i did the honourable thing of talking to him man-to-man, instead of hiding, stalking, and bending the truth to his demands. i am very angry that someone who i believed to be a reasonable person has turned out this way, apparently because he cannot respect either her or my honest decisions. to be honest, i am amazed that she is still willing to be friends with someone whose jealousy once consumed him and pushed her away. i don't believe friends have the right to act that way, and i'm sure there is noone here who would disagree.

our conversation was cut short, i had more questions to ask, but she told me she had to call me back later and cut me off before i could ask when or why. i am left hanging, with no resolution, and only the feeling that someone has once again acted against us with no reason but jealousy. i am very angry that these so-called friends have upset her in this way. i can only hope she will realise just how poorly she is being treated, because my words do not seem enough to convince her, and it is forming a vicious cycle that can only end badly.

[hull_street]

The next time you see this guy near your girlfriend, her room, or you, punch him. In the nose. Hard. The only "reaching out" to him you should be doing is with a closed fist, at this point. The only conversation you should have with him should be a warning to stay away from her. He's proven himself to be no friend of yours. No sense keeping the charade up.

The time for being the sensitive, caring boyfriend is over. It's now time to adopt the "angry boyfriend" persona. If you want to keep her, this is probably the only way to do that. He needs to be removed from her life. And yours. If you lose her after this, at least you'll know it wasn't for a lack of trying. And you get the bonus of keeping your self-respect. If you're worried that you'll lose her for doing this, think of how bad you'll feel when you lose her without doing this. If she needs a confidante, she has your number.

And stop waiting for her to make all the decisions, dammit!

Edit: After having read this, it all sounds like "jealous boyfriend" type stuff, which she claims turns her off. But do you see what she's doing, Silvermoon? SHE'S INTENTIONALLY CREATING JEALOUS BOYFRIENDS !

[Just Like Honey...]

The next time you see this guy near your girlfriend, her room, or you, punch him. In the nose. Hard. The only "reaching out" to him you should be doing.........

I like the way you think, but that's way too extreme. Maybe you should just threaten this prick before you pop him one, or you might scare off Charlotte. Not Good.