i mentioned in my thread about my charlotte that she made the distinction between loving someone and being in love. for the longest time, we've been saying to each other that we love each other. but only today did i say that i am in love with her, and she didnt respond. but she indirectly wondered if i treated her as a close friend, or a girlfriend, or what? i always assumed that we treated each other as people in love, but we had never said it in that manner before. and now i wonder how she actually feels about me. if you dont know the person fully, know how they interpret love, or being in love, or define it, how do you even know? we've shared so much emotionally, spend all our time together, had fun, shared sadness, pulled through, always together. but is that enough to be truly in love? theres obviously nothing approaching a definitive answer, and tbh, considering how major a factor love is in life (the most important thing probably), this could go on forever. so, i'm wondering, any individual comments would help. about anything, past experiences, feelings, personal interpretations, anything. i'm just curious, because i'm beginning to realise just complicated this really is. the oracle in the matrix said that when you're in love, noone can tell you, you just know it. no you dont, you're wrong. dont oversimplify things.
my poll asks simply if you think you've ever been in love. if you would leave comments that would be more than welcome. thanks. i'll start things off.
what is love?
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hull_street
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Actually, Silvermoon, it really is that simple. I won't be the one to try to define what love is. Many have tried and failed, and a few have tried and succeeded, somewhat.Silvermoon wrote:the oracle in the matrix said that when you're in love, noone can tell you, you just know it. no you dont, you're wrong. dont oversimplify things.
What it means to me, though, is this:
You want what is best for the other person, and want to help them achieve some measure of peace and happiness in their lives. Even if that person doesn't, or can't, love you back, or share those feelings for you. In the course of your life, you will find surprisingly few people that fit this criteria. When you love someone, you just know it, and there is no test you can take, no words you can speak, and no action you can perform to prove it...it simply is.
If your love fluctuates based on the other's actions or attitudes, it isn't love. If your love turns to indifference someday, it was never really love. As soon as you place conditions on your love, it ceases to be love, and becomes something else. That's not to say you will never be angry, upset, or disappointed in them. It is possible to love someone, and not always like them very much. But it is the wish to see them happy and fulfilled in their lives, and our desire to assist in that effort, regardless of their relation to us, that defines what love is.
At least, that's how I see it.
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silvermoon
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i'd agree for the most part, i also think that loving someone means wanting what's best for them regardless. thing is, the sticking point for me is that i generally believe that i want the best for everyone i'm close to anyway. i mean, my parents want to divorce, and i know that, despite a few complications, they may be happier apart, and so i encouraged them to do it (it hasnt been done yet though). and i do love my parents. but then, when it comes to ppl i know i dont love per se, for example friends of mine, i always try to help them in any way i can anyway. perhaps not in the same way, but i always try to be supportive, to be there for them.
which brings me to that distinction between them and my charlotte; i believe i do love my charlotte, very much. and i base that on the way you have defined love, and i agree with that myself. but when she said that i treat everyone nicely, and she was worried the way i behave towards her was the same as for everyone else, not because i loved her but because it is my personality, then how do i know whether it is love or not? i think i am generally quite a polite and generous person towards people i like, and i gain great satisfaction from helping people in any way, so being nice towards her, being supportive and wanting the best for her is how i treat everyone, friends, parents, anyone.
i wonder whether my belief that i love her is my fear of being alone, or if it is an obsession because she is so perfect in my eyes. she's beautiful, she's smart, funny, she's everything i want in another person. am i deifying her? is it wrong to believe you love someone who is perfect? there will always be the accusation that it is based on superficiality, or lust, or feeding the ego. how can you ever tell? i once said that i am afraid of losing her because i will never meet someone like her again. i meant that in two ways; the superficial way and the emotional way, the fact she treats me with so much care, respect, and yes, love. she did the same thing the first time she met me, she said that she needed to know if i was genuine, because i seemed so perfect to her, i treated her so well, like out of a soap opera. if we both believe the other is perfect, then there is always the risk that we are still hung up on that. or, perhaps we do genuinely love each other. i think, celebrity marriages tend to fall apart quickly because there is the whirlwind courtship at the beginning, between two beautiful people with the money to make the others superficial dreams come true, but the facade of love slips once that period is over and reality and truths are revealed. i'm worried how much we are like that (but without the money). how much is superficial, and how much is genuine?
i have been angry and disappointed in her, i even had moments where i wanted to react to it, but i never stopped wanting to be with her, or wanting the best for her. but i have a particularly soft personality, and i generally dont hate people. i'm finding it hard to seperate my jealousy and insecurities, my personality, and my life (first love, and being generally quite lonely for much of my life) from each other. i cant tell if its love or if its an obsession, based on linear rules (which of course i'm not implying are accurate ways of defining love). theres so many things, and maybe they'll become clearer once we've been together longer, but for now its a little difficult to tell, to me at least.
which brings me to that distinction between them and my charlotte; i believe i do love my charlotte, very much. and i base that on the way you have defined love, and i agree with that myself. but when she said that i treat everyone nicely, and she was worried the way i behave towards her was the same as for everyone else, not because i loved her but because it is my personality, then how do i know whether it is love or not? i think i am generally quite a polite and generous person towards people i like, and i gain great satisfaction from helping people in any way, so being nice towards her, being supportive and wanting the best for her is how i treat everyone, friends, parents, anyone.
i wonder whether my belief that i love her is my fear of being alone, or if it is an obsession because she is so perfect in my eyes. she's beautiful, she's smart, funny, she's everything i want in another person. am i deifying her? is it wrong to believe you love someone who is perfect? there will always be the accusation that it is based on superficiality, or lust, or feeding the ego. how can you ever tell? i once said that i am afraid of losing her because i will never meet someone like her again. i meant that in two ways; the superficial way and the emotional way, the fact she treats me with so much care, respect, and yes, love. she did the same thing the first time she met me, she said that she needed to know if i was genuine, because i seemed so perfect to her, i treated her so well, like out of a soap opera. if we both believe the other is perfect, then there is always the risk that we are still hung up on that. or, perhaps we do genuinely love each other. i think, celebrity marriages tend to fall apart quickly because there is the whirlwind courtship at the beginning, between two beautiful people with the money to make the others superficial dreams come true, but the facade of love slips once that period is over and reality and truths are revealed. i'm worried how much we are like that (but without the money). how much is superficial, and how much is genuine?
i have been angry and disappointed in her, i even had moments where i wanted to react to it, but i never stopped wanting to be with her, or wanting the best for her. but i have a particularly soft personality, and i generally dont hate people. i'm finding it hard to seperate my jealousy and insecurities, my personality, and my life (first love, and being generally quite lonely for much of my life) from each other. i cant tell if its love or if its an obsession, based on linear rules (which of course i'm not implying are accurate ways of defining love). theres so many things, and maybe they'll become clearer once we've been together longer, but for now its a little difficult to tell, to me at least.
Let me take a crack at this from another way - what love is not.
Love is not blind - love sees everything. Love accepts those faults that truly don't matter, but love cannot accept being hurt by someone; that is not love - that is dependency.
Love NEVER asks someone to change for their own convenience.
Love NEVER says "if you love me, you'll do (this or that or whatever).
Love doesn't ask for things; love accepts the best and the worst in a person. Love does not beg.
Unrequited love cannot exist for very long. It will die or (worse) becomes resentment or dependency. Trying to maintain love in that vacuum sucks the life out of yourself until you no longer CAN love.
When people despartely WANT to be in love, they can think they really ARE in love (and that is true at any age). It can be painful to admit, but I think we at times try to make love happen for our own selfish reasons.
I don't think you have to make love happen. Relationships take work - but love does not take work. And that's where the thought comes in that if you have to ask, then one or both partners are not in love.
Anyway - at my ripe age of 54 I have finally come to grips with this reality for myself.
Love is not blind - love sees everything. Love accepts those faults that truly don't matter, but love cannot accept being hurt by someone; that is not love - that is dependency.
Love NEVER asks someone to change for their own convenience.
Love NEVER says "if you love me, you'll do (this or that or whatever).
Love doesn't ask for things; love accepts the best and the worst in a person. Love does not beg.
Unrequited love cannot exist for very long. It will die or (worse) becomes resentment or dependency. Trying to maintain love in that vacuum sucks the life out of yourself until you no longer CAN love.
When people despartely WANT to be in love, they can think they really ARE in love (and that is true at any age). It can be painful to admit, but I think we at times try to make love happen for our own selfish reasons.
I don't think you have to make love happen. Relationships take work - but love does not take work. And that's where the thought comes in that if you have to ask, then one or both partners are not in love.
Anyway - at my ripe age of 54 I have finally come to grips with this reality for myself.
"[quote:15912f02b0="52FM"]Relationships take work - but love does not take work.[/quote:15912f02b0]
If you're talking about love without talking about a relationship, what are we talking about?"
If you're talking about love without talking about a relationship, what are we talking about?"
Last edited by jm on Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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blades7896
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