marriage?

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silvermoon
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marriage?

#1 Post by silvermoon » Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:57 am

im 20 at the moment. i've been with my charlotte for about 15 months now. we've been through some extreme highs, and extreme lows. its been very tough to get where we are now, but here we are. we've had an amazing past couple of months, and we're planning to move in together next yr for our last yr of uni. thats if she doesnt get a one yr internship, in which case she would fall a yr behind me in uni and live in another city, and to be honest, i dont think i can handle a long distance relationship. its silly to say really, that i feel i cant really trust a young lady in another city for a yr, but we've talked extensively about marriage recently. she knows that i wouldnt be able to handle a long distance relationship with her and she is going to turn down the internship and stay with me for next yr. and then she plans to finish studies, get a job in this country, and then marriage. she's shown before that she puts studies and her career before everything else, but shes not doing that anymore. we've gotten so serious that i think theres only one way this relationship can go. again, it sounds silly to say that we're thinking of marriage when we both openly admit that i wouldnt be able to trust her living so far away. but being honest, i think its quite hard to really trust a young lady who still enjoys living it up (all young students do) living in a party town and not worrying. i'd like to believe that i wouldnt think that way but im only human, and so is she. and im adult enough to know that with any woman who men desire, there will always be the threat of infidelity. is it wrong of us to think of marriage when we dont trust each other in this way? it just seems logical to me that no matter which woman, this is just a fact of life. when the cats away, the mice will play. and recently we've been amazing, we still fight and argue, sometimes viciously, but thats true with everyone. and when shes good, shes amazing. she does everything for me with incredible enthusiasm, cooking, knitting me sweaters (doubly difficult cos im an XL), buying me presents off the cuff. she went back to her home country for a couple of weeks yesterday, and before leaving we had an amazing, intimate night together, and when i whispered to her that i was going to miss her she just collapsed crying while in bed and said a thousand times that she'd miss me too. it was such a raw cry of compassion and love i just dont know what to think. that she so clearly cares for me (i hesitate to say love, cos thats a difficult term to interpret), and yet i cant trust her being away by herself. is it wrong to think about a future when i feel this way? is it not natural to think that any beautiful woman (and she is beautiful, there is no doubt) will be an object of lust to men, and this is a normal reason to worry? i think so, but im conflicted. i do really want to spend my life (im young but i know wot i want) with her, but i feel guilty for not trusting her. i dont know where to go next.

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#2 Post by Pockets » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:33 pm

20 is way too soon to think about marriage imo. Just enjoy the time you have together and don't worry about the ending if and when it should happen. You both enjoy each other's company and at the same time, your careers and studies are important too. Just be very supportive of each other and don't hold the other person back. One day you will have great memories to look back on. Don't end things in bitterness. Not every great relationship needs to culminate in marriage. You both are still growing as people. Marry now and even if you weren't to be separated geographically, you most likely would grow apart anyway. I have no regrets about my past serious boyfriends, but if I could do anything over, I would still not go back and marry them. We still had great times together though. Learn from each relationship so that the future ones get better. :)

I love watching House, MD:
“You get married at twenty, you’re going to be shocked who you’re living with at thirty.”
- Fools For Love

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#3 Post by 52FM » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:07 pm

I agree with Pockets. I got married at 23; too soon; and my wife and I both agree on that point. We didn't really even know who WE were; how coudl we expect each other to know? So at 55, with our kids grown, we're trying to find out. Not recommended.

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#4 Post by silvermoon » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:17 pm

i can't believe it...

my charlotte and i have been through so much together in such a short space of time. some bad moments, many amazing ones. but today she informed me that we may potentially go through our darkest hr yet. it has truly put things into perspective. i confess that some of the bad moments have never stopped playing in my mind, sometimes it becomes overwhelming, sometimes i realise how silly it all is. this is one of those times.

my charlotte has gone back to her home country for a couple of weeks. she had to go back for a check up. she had an operation a few yrs ago and she still experiences pain, and so she went back to find out the cause of it. noone expected anything major, as even as recently as last yr she went back and was given the all clear.

today, she emailed me for the first time since she got back (she called me once before that). she said that she had had a great time since getting back, until a few hrs ago. and then she said, she had got some bad news from the doctors. it was worse than they had thought. in a roundabout way...she said she had symptoms that for a young adult could mean cancer.

i thought about calling her, but it was late over in her country so i decided against it, i dont know if that was a good idea or not but at the same time i didnt want to scare her or distress her so i emailed her. i just said that i was sorry i couldnt be there for her but that i was always here for her and i would do anything that she asks of me. i didnt want to say that i missed her in case it put pressure on her to come back before she should, but i said that i love her. and i asked her to call me when she could.

i dont know what to say when she calls me. the doctors dont know for sure what it is (so far they believe it is a benign tumour) so i dont want to say anything definite, but i cant very well say not to worry either (saying its benign isnt going to make her worry any less, and it could still mean she has to get an operation, which she obviously doesnt want if she could avoid it). i dont want to say 'how are you?' or anything stupid like that. how do i begin? i dont know.

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#5 Post by 52FM » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:42 pm

First of all, my thoughts and prayers are with you both during these scary times. I've been through this kind of thing many times - and the uncertainty is tough (especially when you are far away.)

That's what you need to convey to her - the fact that you wish you were with her to help her cope with this; that you understand her concerns and fears and you want to be there for her to talk them out, or to be someone to take the anger out on (knowing that she doesn't mean it against you) or whatever she needs. She needs to know you will help her through WHATEVER the result is.

Sure you're worried too, but she will sense that. Try ot hide your own fears and give her whatever support she needs.

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#6 Post by Pockets » Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:26 pm

silvermoon- The movie A Love Story comes to my mind when I read your last post. What is your college major? Are you able to take a year or two off without penalty? If you can, one thought is to put your academic life on hold to be with your Charlotte as she goes through this medical crisis. But talk to your academic advisors first, then your parents too. Maybe you can spend a year with her in her home country, perhaps you can go to school there or teach English as a second language. It pays well.

Otherwise, don't be afraid that you will never find another woman that you can talk so easily with. If you learn to be a good listener, there are many interesting people to meet and become friends with in this world.

Good luck to your Charlotte. :(

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#7 Post by Flyonthewall » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:48 am

Silver... I'll be pulling for your Charlotte. I'm sure that everything will be ok in the end.
"...Stay here, with me...."

The Search for Charlotte continues....

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#8 Post by silvermoon » Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:57 am

thanks for the replies, everyone. i spoke to my charlotte just now for only the second time since she got back home, even tho i emailed her many many times, but as i suspected she has been busy every day so i did the right thing not calling her. i just spoke to her to see what she had been up to, and she seemed fairly calm, but we didn't speak about the issue, just that she was going to the doctors tomorrow for another check up. she seemed so calm i didnt want to alarm her or distress her so i decided not to mention it. i think she knows by now that i obviously care deeply about her so no harm done. we agreed to meet online tomorrow to speak again and i guess i'll find out more tomorrow. fingers crossed. and thanks again, people, it means a lot to me.

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#9 Post by silvermoon » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:41 am

i spoke to my charlotte today, and she told me that she has to have an operation, either this week or in easter, after which she will not be able to walk for quite a while until it heals. i urged her to have it done as soon as possible but being an international student there have been medical complications regarding scans and so on for when she gets back to the uk, so we are trying to sort this out. the doctors still do not know if the tumour is cancerous or not but either way, she needs surgery or else her leg will not hold out for very long before it gives way again. i told her that i would do anything for her and call her every day, and that i was covering for her and picking up her notes in uni, and got the reaction i wanted. she smiled and said thank u in her sweet way, and i told her nonsense, u dont need to say that. i think i managed to cheer her up just a little, made a few light jokes, made her laugh, and i let her know i was here for her, and i wished i was with her now. i promised to call her every day at the same time, and by the end of the call she seemed reasonably happy (as happy as can be, anyway). i hope that she does the sensible thing and has the operation now, and that things go her way after that. im not a religious person, but im keeping my fingers crossed.

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#10 Post by silvermoon » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:29 pm

i spoke to my charlotte again twice in two days, and there has been good progress. last night, she called me and said she had decided to try and get the operation as soon as possible, and not wait till easter, and asked me for several favours regarding studies, which i said i would do for her. we had a lovely conversation and at the end, she said, it sounds like you're not missing me, in a joking manner, and i said to her that i didnt want to say that i missed her in case it made her want to come back early, but i said, if u want the truth, i have been thinking of u every second u have been away, and i wish i could see her now. she smiled and we ended the conversation on a good note. it got better when i received an email from her in the morning, which said that she missed me very much as well, and for the first time since she got back, that she loved me. it made me so so happy just to hear those words again. i spoke to her once again, and the latest is that she is going to try to get the operation this week, and she would find out tomorrow. once again, im keeping my fingers crossed. but this time, i feel a little happier.

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#11 Post by silvermoon » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:41 pm

i called her just now, and someone else picked up the phone. shes on the operating table now. im so scared. i realise where all my strength has come from lately. i feel so impotent...

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#12 Post by I65 » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:57 am

Thinking of you both, and hoping all goes smoothly.

Bless

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#13 Post by Pockets » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:25 am

silvermoon wrote:i called her just now, and someone else picked up the phone. shes on the operating table now. im so scared. i realise where all my strength has come from lately. i feel so impotent...
Try to stop thinking so negatively. Focus only on sending positive energy her way. She needs your strength, you can do it.

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#14 Post by 52FM » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:36 am

silvermoon -
at times like these, I always pray not for an outcome, but for the strength to handle what will come. I'm sure you have that strength - and we're all with you. Post as often as you want or need to - even if it's every hour; it might help to know there are people literally around the entire world thinking of you and wishing you the best.

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#15 Post by silvermoon » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:00 am

she came out yesterday. i called her in the morning and she was already having the operation. she was sposed to be in recovery for 4-5hrs b4 i could contact her, but she called me as soon as she woke, with a smile, and it was very sweet of her.

i then didnt call her for 24hrs, partly because it was very late when i spoke to her, partly because i had to attend uni (for me AND for her) and partly because when uni had finished it was too late to call her without waking everyone in her ward. so i called her at 12pm in her time, about 24hrs after we last spoke, and she gave me an almighty tongue lashing. she said she had been sick for 5hrs the day before but i had ignored her, which i guess i had but not through neglect, just time and a schedule i was sposed to follow for both mine and her benefit, and when i asked her whether she knew whether the operation was successful, she told me off again for asking stupid questions. and then she said she didnt want to speak to me then, and hung up.

i called her back after half an hr, and she had cooled down a bit, but her father came in and interrupted us, and so she said she would call me back. i called her once more in the morning, and she had cooled down sufficiently to say, sorry for lashing out at me, it was just because she was uncomfortable and didnt know the answers. i told her that of course she was silly to say that, and i understood, and i tried to explain why i didnt call, and then we said a gentle goodbye to each other. i understand that she is frustrated and wants to take out her anger on me, but also...the bond she formed with jughead, enough to betray me, was formed the last time she was recovering in hospital. he was by her side, and she loved him for it. and now she expects me to be able to do the same for her 2000miles away and while attending uni for her. i can be by a persons side in hospital for hrs on end, with love thats easy and ive done that before, but i just dont know what to say over the phone to try to convince her that im there for her. i never know what to say. she sits in a bed for the whole day with nobody around her, but i dont know what to say to fill that time for her. i desperately want to be able to support her and show how much i care, but i just dont know what to say.

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#16 Post by Pockets » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:11 pm

So she doesn't have internet access right now? Well, factor in that she's not feeling well as she's just been operated on. If they have her on pain meds, I remember the ones I got make me a little queasy and my mouth was dry. Then add in her worrying how the operation went...

So you have to dance the delicate line between being there on the phone when she needs the comfort and the chance that when you call her, it will be inconvenient (sleeping or with family). Consequently, don't beat yourself up over any missteps. And... being that you are 20-21 and a poor student, you can't be expected to spend a ton of money on phone calls and get well gifts to her. It's just not appropriate either. It's enough to give her verbal emotional support and helping with the university notes and homework imo. Don't spoil her if it's money out of pocket. I feel like my mother saying this sort of stuff... but remember that she's also a young adult and it's good for her to do things for herself. Don't handicap her by rushing to her aid all of the time. Doing things for herself will take her mind off of her health issues. If you coddle her too much, she will also view herself as a helpless cripple.

I think that if you can't email her, mail her some letters of support. When my boyfriend and I were living 1500 miles apart, we exchanged many romantic emails and it was wonderful to be able to go back and reread and savor them. Can she watch videos or dvds? Mail her some lighthearted movies. Laughter is good for the soul and health. Or send her some of your favorite music to listen to. Even classical is soothing. Lastly, what about mailing her a stuffed animal to hug? Basically, send her one well thought out giftbox.

The plus of a phone call is that it is immediate gratification. The downside is that once you hang up, it's done. Then the factor of you having to think quickly of the right things to say. Obviously she knows that you wish her well and how many different ways can you say that? Seriously, spread out the phone calls. One of the biggest problems with dating these days is how connected couples feel they have to be by cellphone, text messaging, instant messaging, emails and landlines. You need to maintain some separate personal space from each other. Space is good.

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#17 Post by silvermoon » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:14 pm

today was mentally draining. after the charlotte debacle, i called her back 3 more times, once before she slept, and each time was better. eventually, i told her i was sending her and her father a gift, and she laughed for the first time today, and then asked me if i could go to pick her up at the airport. by airport, she means her airport on her transit flight, which doesnt mean the uk. but i agreed, and all seemed to be well. not great, because i asked her if i could kiss her gdnite over the phone and she refused for a reason i couldnt hear, but well enough.

my mother came up to visit today. usually, that means a big argument and lots of anger, and this time was no different. actually, this time was special. my mother goes through a phase where she wants a divorce every yr. this time it has been dragging on, and she has put our house up for sale as a show of her will. i have been supporting her all the while, saying that i want her to do whatevr makes her happy and that i will do my best when i get a job to support her. i said to her that i havnt graduated yet so dont know whether i will have a job in the future but i will do my best. and then it went off. she blamed me for not being able to guarantee her financial support in the future, blamed me for telling her the pitfalls of getting a divorce (she hasnt worked in 20yrs and has no qualifications). and then, she really got started. she said, i was a mistake, that it was my fault that she is trapped because she stayed for my sake. i then found out that my mum had cheated on her old bf to be with my dad, married him even though she didnt love him, partly for a passport, told him she wanted a divorce on their honeymoon, and then i was born a few yrs later. she said she wished she could have sold me when i was born, and the icing on the cake, said that because i am the reason she is trapped in a loveless, horrible marriage (define horrible, i said. horrible is being moaned at by my grandad every time my mum buys a handbag she doesnt use, or goes on holiday, or my grandad saying that she shouldnt moan if she doesnt work and spends my dads money. all things i agree with), she wants payback financially and by treating me badly. starting with trying to sabotage me and my charlotte. and then forcing my grandad to cut off my tuition fees. and finally, killing herself and holding me responsible.

i have been so so patient about this for so long. i have always known that she holds me responsible for all her troubles, because she would never admit that she married the wrong person or had me when she didnt even want to stay married. i have never seen my parents close, so much as holding hands, never seen them in the same bed (my dad sleeps in what we tell visitors is the spare room). my best memories involving my parents involve my mum chasing my dad with a meat hammer. i have always just accepted these things. and my parents are financially ok and have given me many of the things i have wanted in my life. i cant complain. i just wish my parents could get that divorce so i could get the hell out of this tangled web. im exhausted today.

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#18 Post by Pockets » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:51 pm

Wow. Your mom sounds like my mom... when my mom has had a few drinks (this is part of the reason I don't drink very often), a lot of frustrations come out of her mouth. I think that mostly she is sad that her dad and her only brother passed away over 20 years ago. This leaves her with no male blood relatives, and for Chinese people, the males in the family are placed on pedestals. Otherwise, she likes to say that because her three girls are not successful career-wise, my stepfather worries about us and is working himself to death to provide for us financially later on. Nevermind that my stepdad loves what he is doing and also has always needed some alone time from my mom and us. He just has solitary tendencies, and I'm actually the same way (even though we we are not related by blood). And my mom will also threaten us girls with that if our (step)dad dies before her, she will sell all of the houses, liquidate everything and run away from us. And for the last 15 years, she has said that she refuses to ever work again.

So I don't know where all this unhappiness of hers comes from, except that I know that I don't want to be around her when she drinks. And I like having my family 3000 miles away from me.

So silvermoon... just work very hard at school and have your goal be financial independence from your family. It isn't all that hard to do, but things that will hold you back would be if you slacked off of your studies to tend to your Charlotte, racking up large phone bills to her, wasting money on lots of gifts to her or indulging in electronics, cars and whatever else young guys enjoy. Focus on academics and a career, everything else will drop into place. If your Charlotte should fuss, calmly reassure her and explain your plan of action. The sooner you become a functioning adult, the sooner the two of you could actually really be together. But if you have to pamper your Charlotte with too much attention and gifts, you won't be able to reach your ultimate goal of independence from your mom.

Your Charlotte sounds wonderful, but she is at a young and impressionable age. If you spoil her (and what girl doesn't enjoy attention and gifts?) she won't be a very good wife or life companion to you. Trust me, I've seen all kinds of couples.

And as for your mom, remember that you can't pick your family, but you can pick your friends. Once you are out of school and working, just focus on being independent and cutting your mother out of your life completely... until she gets an attitude adjustment. Don't let her give you these guilt trips because none of it is your fault. Just because she's your mom, doesn't mean that she's right.

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#19 Post by silvermoon » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:11 am

wow...i dont mean to be a downer, but when you say that about yourself it sounds like ive had it much easier...im glad that you're the sensitive person you are today! and i know what you mean about concentrating on the academics, im hard at work at uni atm, same as charlotte (same course). altho i will admit that i have been guilty of indulging charlotte every now and then. but not myself (i cant drive, and the pleasure i gain comes from charlottes company). but my definite aim is to cut my mother out as soon as i can, because i can see from my nan that my mother will never change, just get worse. i guess it helps that my mum told me not to call her again!

i spoke to charlotte again recently. she seems to be recovering well, they've let her out of bed now and she can go around the hospital which is great, and she will be able to come back before the end of the month. our phone conversations have been...sterile. but i guess that she doesnt have that much to be cheery about, so i guess things will be better when i see her.

i have to confess...i am having second thoughts about our relationship. when charlotte isnt next to me, our problems are amplified. i overthink most things, and i have trouble letting the past go. but...i realise more and more that she and i cant be together in the long term. looking at my parents, and the problems they had from the beginning...i dont want to get married with her, maybe have kids, and one day for our kids to say to me, why did u get me into this? charlotte and i are only comfortable when we shut ourselves off from the rest of the world, stop meeting our friends, and thats not healthy. we had an argument a few weeks ago...suffice to say, she lied to me about a man. perhaps she did it because, as she said, we were finally having a patch in our relationship which was...happy. but, i found out she lied to me, but didnt have enough evidence to fully incriminate her. so i let her off. i know so well that i shouldnt be with her, but i cant bring myself to do it. and...now that she is in this situation, where she will need someone next to her when she gets back, i dont feel it is appropriate to break it off. i dont know what to do. simply...in the last few months, she has become more than the person i want to be with. but she lied to me in this time. i dont want to leave her because i leapt to paranoid accusations, if she has truly changed for the better then it would be the biggest mistake of my life. having read your posts, pockets, i agree that the perfect partner should be first and foremost your best friend. and charlotte and i are soulmates in the way that even if we were not attracted to one another, we would still be able to talk about anything and everything, night and day. right down to singing the theme tune to cheesy old cartoons like captain planet. she is a better friend to me than even my best friends that ive known for much longer. ive never met anyone more suited to me, and chances are, i never will. i know that sounds stupid, i cant predict the future, but honestly...how many people get to meet two loves of their one life? but then...i dont like being lied to. i dont know right from wrong, and what to believe anymore.

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#20 Post by Pockets » Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:24 pm

First, in terms of our relationships with our mothers, I don't think that I have it any worse than you. I am twice your age and have learned how to deal with it, and my solution is physical distance. It was more painful for me when I was your age. My mother is also like your mother in the sense that they are more traditional in values, more old country than modern Westernized, so consequently, they would never dream of going into therapy for their woes. Therefore, they will always have their demons. And you have to make sure that she doesn't bring you down with her and also reject that guilt trip that she will always throw at you.

Secondly, your relationship with Charlotte. As others have said before, you are relatively young still. That's not meant as a patronizing put down, but time will give you a much better perspective on everything. At 20 or 21, you are still developing as a adult. Your brain won't actually be fully developed until you are 25 and the last part to develop in the frontal cortex where all the decision making is. Your Charlotte could be the one, but whoever it will be, don't get engaged until at least 25! lol And if it helps, try to remember any grade school crushes you may have had and think about if you had stuck it out and you with one of those girls now. Every good relationship (flings and one night stands don't count) that you have, will truly make you a better companion. What is important to you now in a companion, will be different as you get older and more experienced as a judge of character. Learn to listen and observe more than taking the lead in every interaction with another human being. Learn to see the patterns of human nature and how people just are. As you get older, you will also notice that you will be wiser in your choice of friends. i feel that when you are young, a friend is someone that is confident and knows how to have fun. Later on, you might notice that the "fun" person is also an alcoholic and maybe has too much fun, lets his credit card debts pile up and is always borrowing money from you (:P). So your next pick to be your friend is someone that is less fun all of the time, and more responsible.

Third, your current Charlotte is special because so far in your life, is seems to be the first human in your life that is so much on your own same wavelength. Then factor in how alienated your own mother makes you feel. So by contrast, your Charlotte is even more a winner. But continue to enjoy her company, be patient for her full recovery and please, in supporting her (emotionally), don't let drain too much of your emotional energy.

Lastly, lying. This is a biggie. I read an online article a short while ago about a study on children and how they learn to lie by the age of 5 and they learn how to lie from watching their parents. All human beings lie. There have been more a few movies about a very sheltered person interacting with society for the first time, and think of the children's tale The Emperor's New Clothes. Then factor in men and women thinking differently. And I have found that men think more in black and white, women in gray scale. So whatever this other guy thing with Charlotte, I suspect that she found herself the recipient of another guy's attentions, and it felt good to her. Your Charlotte is very attractive and at her age, she's just going to have a lot of random guys wanting to flirt with her. They probably do it in a humorous fashion, and us women always feel dorky if we cut those types of flirty guys off with a curt "I'm taken", especially if the guy is attractive and pleasant. The whole point of looking nice when you are young is to be attractive, and no one notices that, then we feel less attractive. It feels good to be flattered. And guys are the same way too. Even if you have a wife or girlfriend already, having a pretty girl come up to you to ask you for directions or whatever and finishing with a smile is a wonderful good feeling.... so anyway, what if Charlotte had what started out as an innocent encounter? And then she doesn't you because she feels that it will ruin your perfect bubble of a relationship?

Later on, women will also lie to you about how much their shopping spree actually cost them. lol. But stop being unreasonable about everything between you and any Charlotte being completely an open book. Even on the same wavelength, you are still different people who will make different choices. You can never be completely privy to each other's every thought. And if you weren't actually there standing next to her when it happens, when she retells the situations, there is no way that you will experience it the way she did. I remember that I used to wonder what it would be like if everyone could read each other's thoughts, and it would be horrible if you couldn't have some privacy. Sorry for the ramble, but what I am trying to tell you is that you need to back off on the full disclosure stuff and mellow out. And by the same token, this allows you the same privilege to talk to and be friends with other girls without feeling guilty or disloyal to Charlotte.

P.S. Have you used the "L" word a lot with Charlotte? Otherwise, take the pressure off of your relationship, by not discussing love and soulmates, but just be affectionate and work on the best friends part. From Jane Eyre, I like to tell my man that is my "dearest earthly companion" and we call each other "best friend" and thank each other for "being". For us, being best friends is more important thing. A good mental exercise is to imagine your Charlotte old, ugly or fat... now that she's lost her good looks, would she be the same wonderful companion to you?

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