is Charlotte cheating on her Husbend?
Moderator: Bob
Nicely written, Guest.
I don't know how one could control who one falls for. I'm not sure if one should?
It's so tricky, chemistry and stuff. It happens that people fall for someone, and though the relationship may end for some reason or another, and you go on and fall for someone else, the other one still makes your heart tremble... even if the new relationship is just as good and strong. I wonder why it's so difficult for the heart to move on...
I don't know how one could control who one falls for. I'm not sure if one should?
It's so tricky, chemistry and stuff. It happens that people fall for someone, and though the relationship may end for some reason or another, and you go on and fall for someone else, the other one still makes your heart tremble... even if the new relationship is just as good and strong. I wonder why it's so difficult for the heart to move on...
"[quote:65376b3e82="Guest"]Maybe that's why Bob let the singer pick him up.[/quote:65376b3e82]
Mr. Murray said:
[color=darkblue:65376b3e82]"Well, I think what happens is he's touched by someone who has -- he's touched by this girl, he's touched by her, so that there's an emotional energy that he will always have, you know, whether he has the same vitality for his work, or for the regime of the day, maybe not, but to be emotionally touched is to be fresh and be alive and be new, uh, and it's a shock for him to feel something where, in his own personal relationship, it had become perhaps mundane and ordinary. So there was a new old feeling. He had an old feeling again that he liked. And he responded to it. And, but because his life had developed, and he was more of a developed man, he wasn't going to let -- he wasn't going to spoil that. Which was what Sofia was trying to say, that he knew how to have an exchange with someone, and to spend time with someone, and be intimate with someone without becoming invasive and damaging to the other person or to his own life.... Well, I think I tried to watch him go and to be him and to watch him at the same time. So that as he was reacting and behaving, that he was -- that I was watching him. And I think that's what his character was doing, he's doing things and he's watching himself . He knows what's happening: he sees the attraction of this woman, he sees the situation, he sees how far away he is from his home, and he knows, he feels the pull of the emotion pulling him towards the woman and he feels the pull towards his own home. And he's just watching it, and I think it's his watching it that enables him to maintain his dignity, and to do the best thing for himself and for Scarlett's character. To do the best thing for the girl and for himself -- and if he hadn't been watching, and the moment he's not watching is when he falls for the girl in the bar, you know? But partly that moment occurs he doesn't want to spoil the other thing, he doesn't want to spoil with the other girl. He knows he's a man and he's weak, maybe he has his weaknesses, but he doesn't want to be weak for her, with her."[/color:65376b3e82]"
Mr. Murray said:
[color=darkblue:65376b3e82]"Well, I think what happens is he's touched by someone who has -- he's touched by this girl, he's touched by her, so that there's an emotional energy that he will always have, you know, whether he has the same vitality for his work, or for the regime of the day, maybe not, but to be emotionally touched is to be fresh and be alive and be new, uh, and it's a shock for him to feel something where, in his own personal relationship, it had become perhaps mundane and ordinary. So there was a new old feeling. He had an old feeling again that he liked. And he responded to it. And, but because his life had developed, and he was more of a developed man, he wasn't going to let -- he wasn't going to spoil that. Which was what Sofia was trying to say, that he knew how to have an exchange with someone, and to spend time with someone, and be intimate with someone without becoming invasive and damaging to the other person or to his own life.... Well, I think I tried to watch him go and to be him and to watch him at the same time. So that as he was reacting and behaving, that he was -- that I was watching him. And I think that's what his character was doing, he's doing things and he's watching himself . He knows what's happening: he sees the attraction of this woman, he sees the situation, he sees how far away he is from his home, and he knows, he feels the pull of the emotion pulling him towards the woman and he feels the pull towards his own home. And he's just watching it, and I think it's his watching it that enables him to maintain his dignity, and to do the best thing for himself and for Scarlett's character. To do the best thing for the girl and for himself -- and if he hadn't been watching, and the moment he's not watching is when he falls for the girl in the bar, you know? But partly that moment occurs he doesn't want to spoil the other thing, he doesn't want to spoil with the other girl. He knows he's a man and he's weak, maybe he has his weaknesses, but he doesn't want to be weak for her, with her."[/color:65376b3e82]"
Last edited by jm on Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- You Make it Easy
- Charlie Brown
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Go to the French siteYou Make it Easy wrote:Well put by Bill, is it from an interview?
click le site
click interviews
click the two Bill Murray interviews -- and of course, the others too.
I don't entirely agree with what Murray is saying. I've never been clear on what happened the day Charlotte went to Kyoto and Bob did the talk show and then slept with the singer. Bob and Charlotte had just spent the night together. Then they weren't going to hook up the next day? One scene shows Bob, as he's talking on the phone with Ms. Kawasaki about the talk show, looking at a sheet of paper with a map on which Charlotte has written, "Bob, call me if you get lost." That night, when he is talking to Lydia as he is bathing, he says, "Whatever you want...I'm completely lost." At what point here would he feel motivated to give in to the singer's advances? That whole day was pieced together in an odd way. Why would you spend two days getting to know one another in a strange place, then inexplicably avoid each other the next day? They both knew time was short.
he gave in to the singer because he was more deeply depressed and drunk that night than usual.Guest wrote:I don't entirely agree with what Murray is saying. I've never been clear on what happened the day Charlotte went to Kyoto and Bob did the talk show and then slept with the singer. Bob and Charlotte had just spent the night together. Then they weren't going to hook up the next day? One scene shows Bob, as he's talking on the phone with Ms. Kawasaki about the talk show, looking at a sheet of paper with a map on which Charlotte has written, "Bob, call me if you get lost." That night, when he is talking to Lydia as he is bathing, he says, "Whatever you want...I'm completely lost." At what point here would he feel motivated to give in to the singer's advances? That whole day was pieced together in an odd way. Why would you spend two days getting to know one another in a strange place, then inexplicably avoid each other the next day? They both knew time was short.
B and C had a day apart because they didn't know each other all that well and that was a normal thing to do, instead of being in each other's pockets all the time. It wasn't until the fire alarm night that they really drew together
"[quote:ad4c68755b="jml2"][quote:ad4c68755b="Guest"]At what point here would he feel motivated to give in to the singer's advances?[/quote:ad4c68755b]
he gave in to the singer because he was more deeply depressed and drunk that night than usual. [/quote:ad4c68755b]
I think he screwed the singer because he couldn't screw Charlotte.
If you're married, which is worse -- to sleep with someone else you have deep feelings for and a deep connection with, or to screw some broad you could care less about?"
he gave in to the singer because he was more deeply depressed and drunk that night than usual. [/quote:ad4c68755b]
I think he screwed the singer because he couldn't screw Charlotte.
If you're married, which is worse -- to sleep with someone else you have deep feelings for and a deep connection with, or to screw some broad you could care less about?"
Last edited by jm on Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
haha, well said!johnmonkey wrote: I think he screwed the singer because he couldn't screw Charlotte.
If you're married, which is worse -- to sleep with someone else you have deep feelings for and a deep connection with, or to screw some broad you could care less about?
no, seriously though, i agree. One night stands are easier when you don't have that emotional connection.
"[quote:f31cf1bd7b="jml2"]I don't think he wanted to sleep with Charlotte so much that he had to do it with another woman, at that point[/quote:f31cf1bd7b]
That looks like what I said "
That looks like what I said "
Last edited by jm on Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anyone interested in an older guy's point if view? In my expereince, most people probably can't see an emotional affair coming (unless they've been through one already). So in that sense I don't consider what they did cheating on any level. Bob was very much in control, as the Bill Murray interview described he seemed to always look at it from making sure he was not negatively affrecting Charlotte. (Had I only been that wise).
The test comes from recognizing it should end, and then actually ending it (again, if I had only been that wise). Bob on the last night was feeling it because he realized it had to end and naturally wished that somehow it wouldn't. He needed closure and that's what the last hug, kiss, and whisper was for him. (Notice how he says "OK" to the driver after that. The best delivered line in the film - OK to drive on, but more "OK" - I'm really ready to end this and deal with my real life.) (Again, if only...)
The kiss in my opinion went too far - maybe it was just an LA way of telling each other how they felt. It was chaste enough. (At least I kept my realtionship strictly non-physical - not even any foot holding!)
Generally - except for the kiss, I think Bob could tell Lydia everything. I told my wife everything - even showed every email I saved. Had I just ended it when I tried to, I think she would have understood. She essentially said as much - again, since I don't think you can see an emotional affair coming. It was my desire to try and have the friendship and my marriage that I created suspicion. Then, I believe I in fact was cheating - though it was never physical.
The test comes from recognizing it should end, and then actually ending it (again, if I had only been that wise). Bob on the last night was feeling it because he realized it had to end and naturally wished that somehow it wouldn't. He needed closure and that's what the last hug, kiss, and whisper was for him. (Notice how he says "OK" to the driver after that. The best delivered line in the film - OK to drive on, but more "OK" - I'm really ready to end this and deal with my real life.) (Again, if only...)
The kiss in my opinion went too far - maybe it was just an LA way of telling each other how they felt. It was chaste enough. (At least I kept my realtionship strictly non-physical - not even any foot holding!)
Generally - except for the kiss, I think Bob could tell Lydia everything. I told my wife everything - even showed every email I saved. Had I just ended it when I tried to, I think she would have understood. She essentially said as much - again, since I don't think you can see an emotional affair coming. It was my desire to try and have the friendship and my marriage that I created suspicion. Then, I believe I in fact was cheating - though it was never physical.
- Suntory
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A few notes.
1) Of course Bob cheated on his wife with the singer. Do I think Bob cheated because of his friendship with Charlotte? No I don't think he did technically but it got in to quasi territory at the end.
2) Why did they spend a day apart?! Space! Space people! Even if two people are wild about each other they don't have to smother each other! How tired would that get? Two people doing their own thing and then coming
back together refreshes the relationship and makes the time they do spend
together more special. I think anyway. Charlotte wanted to go to Kyoto and Bob wanted to play golf!
I think they both needed closure. They couldn't very well express how they felt
in the middle of the lobby of the park Hyatt. It was incomplete.
When they met in the street later it was complete closure for
both of them!
I liked the kiss and thought it was fine.
My feeling from listening to Lydia was that she probably wouldn't
want to know so Bob shouldn't even bother talking about it!
By the way if anyone wants to see who played Lydia watch
the behind the scenes special on the dvd. Nancy something
the costume person I think.
1) Of course Bob cheated on his wife with the singer. Do I think Bob cheated because of his friendship with Charlotte? No I don't think he did technically but it got in to quasi territory at the end.
2) Why did they spend a day apart?! Space! Space people! Even if two people are wild about each other they don't have to smother each other! How tired would that get? Two people doing their own thing and then coming
back together refreshes the relationship and makes the time they do spend
together more special. I think anyway. Charlotte wanted to go to Kyoto and Bob wanted to play golf!
How about another older guys opinion?!52FM wrote:Anyone interested in an older guy's point if view? He needed closure and that's what the last hug, kiss, and whisper was for him.
The kiss in my opinion went too far - maybe it was just an LA way of telling each other how they felt. It was chaste enough. (At least I kept my realtionship strictly non-physical - not even any foot holding!)
Generally - except for the kiss, I think Bob could tell Lydia everything.
I think they both needed closure. They couldn't very well express how they felt
in the middle of the lobby of the park Hyatt. It was incomplete.
When they met in the street later it was complete closure for
both of them!
I liked the kiss and thought it was fine.
My feeling from listening to Lydia was that she probably wouldn't
want to know so Bob shouldn't even bother talking about it!
By the way if anyone wants to see who played Lydia watch
the behind the scenes special on the dvd. Nancy something
the costume person I think.
And I'll add one more (somewhat obvious) point...
Presumably, not telling Lydia something comes easy for Bob - given his willingness to have one nighters with strangers like the singer (surely that was not the first, and probably not the second or third...)
Have to remember he was a Hollywood actor; making Lydia a Hollywood wife. His one nighters may be considered by her part of the territory.
And while I said Bob could tell Lydia, maybe I'm wrong. I now remember my wife seriously wondering if an emotional connection was actually tougher to accept than a "normal" affair.
Presumably, not telling Lydia something comes easy for Bob - given his willingness to have one nighters with strangers like the singer (surely that was not the first, and probably not the second or third...)
Have to remember he was a Hollywood actor; making Lydia a Hollywood wife. His one nighters may be considered by her part of the territory.
And while I said Bob could tell Lydia, maybe I'm wrong. I now remember my wife seriously wondering if an emotional connection was actually tougher to accept than a "normal" affair.
- hull_street
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I believe that. While a "normal" affair is sexually charged, exciting, etc, it is also temporary, and much easier to recover from...relatively speaking. An emotional connection has the power to weaken otherwise strong marriages. It is insidious, because it can erode emotional intimacy between partners, something that becomes increasingly important as time passes in a relationship. And few things in life are as disconcerting as not being able to fully trust your partner.52FM wrote:And while I said Bob could tell Lydia, maybe I'm wrong. I now remember my wife seriously wondering if an emotional connection was actually tougher to accept than a "normal" affair.
Very well said, hull_street. Every word absolutely on the mark. I hope you don't mind, but I thought you might be speaking from more than theory and looked up some of your older posts.
It seems to me after reading many posts on this board over the last few weeks that few people see any reason for a sequel - and I agree. If there was a sequel, and if it were to have the realism of the first film, it would have to deal with the issue that hull_street articualted so well.
It seems to me after reading many posts on this board over the last few weeks that few people see any reason for a sequel - and I agree. If there was a sequel, and if it were to have the realism of the first film, it would have to deal with the issue that hull_street articualted so well.
- hull_street
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I haven't said much about my relationship with my "Charlotte", partly because the details aren't particularly interesting to anyone but myself, and partly out of respect for her. But I will share this.
I met Charlotte when I was still single, and very young. She was several years older than me, had been married for a few years, and was perfectly satisfied with what she had. I was completely captivated with her, and my fascination never wavered. Over the years, I had gotten married, had a few "normal" affairs, separated, lived with another woman in a long term relationship, helped raise a child...and yet, through it all, I consider Charlotte to be the only woman I ever truly loved. It was never mentioned, of course. We were friends, and the idea of it turning into anything more than that was never in question. I think she understood the situation we were in, far better than I ever did, and it was a long time before I realized the toll I was taking on her...and her relationship with her husband.
In the end, she did the right thing, and ceased communication with me...completely. Not a goodbye, not a word. I continued to write her for some time after that, out of denial, I suppose. Eventually I got around to manufacturing some closure on my end, by telling her a lot of things that had been boiling-up inside for a very long time, suspecting that she would never speak with me again, in any event.
I never kissed her, said "I love you", or so much as held her hand, yet I know she was the woman I could have spent a lifetime with, and gladly would have, given the opportunity.
And Charlotte, if you're out there reading this, thank you for teaching me what the true meaning of love is.
I met Charlotte when I was still single, and very young. She was several years older than me, had been married for a few years, and was perfectly satisfied with what she had. I was completely captivated with her, and my fascination never wavered. Over the years, I had gotten married, had a few "normal" affairs, separated, lived with another woman in a long term relationship, helped raise a child...and yet, through it all, I consider Charlotte to be the only woman I ever truly loved. It was never mentioned, of course. We were friends, and the idea of it turning into anything more than that was never in question. I think she understood the situation we were in, far better than I ever did, and it was a long time before I realized the toll I was taking on her...and her relationship with her husband.
In the end, she did the right thing, and ceased communication with me...completely. Not a goodbye, not a word. I continued to write her for some time after that, out of denial, I suppose. Eventually I got around to manufacturing some closure on my end, by telling her a lot of things that had been boiling-up inside for a very long time, suspecting that she would never speak with me again, in any event.
I never kissed her, said "I love you", or so much as held her hand, yet I know she was the woman I could have spent a lifetime with, and gladly would have, given the opportunity.
And Charlotte, if you're out there reading this, thank you for teaching me what the true meaning of love is.
It sounds like a situation that would be very tough to take, hull_street. I hope you have the closure you need, but for her to break off all communication without a word I would think it would be difficult at best. Still, it sounds like you gained personally form the relationship; and for it to have lasted as long as it seems it did she must have also.
Thanls for sharing that with us.
Thanls for sharing that with us.