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Site Updates Feb 25, 2007

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:44 am
by Bob_san
I updated the codebase to the most recent.
I also had to update the database and restore data but it should all be current as of the date I disabled the forum.

There has a been a problem with our former member johnmonkey/thesoundofonemanlaughing.
I have updated the forum policies so please read it again.
We haven't had this problem before and I hope we do not again.
He mass deleted all his posts without explanation.
I have asked him and corresponded with him and despite repeated pleas and attempts to reason
he has not answered me. He simply said the
posts were his property to do with as he pleases.
One can argue legal mumbo jumbo all they want however when participating in a community such as this,
there are right and wrong things to do and I believe his actions are sabatage and display a selfish lack of respect for
the artistic and literate content and value of the site given his tremendous
contributions here in almost 500 posts.

Unfortuantely the last backup occured just after he had deleted his posts and I had not noticed it yet. The last backup before that is too far away and I don't want to lose new posts. I will be restoring the data of most of his posts from the earlier backup.


Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:06 am
by 52FM
Interesting point. There have been times I wanted to delete many of my posts; I really don't know how other boards handle this. I've only participated in 3 "social" forums - though I've at times posted on technical forums or finance related websites.

I think once people get past a certain part of their journey here, they might want to erase some of the tape as part of a cleansing. Not saying that's JM's motive, but I know at times I feel a bit "exposed". Yet, it was that very exposure that helped me - so I guess for legacy purposes it's better to leave them. For example, Pockets was kind enough to read through them to see where I was coming from and I appreciated the time she took to do that.

I wonder what others thiink. I'm fine with abiding by the rules that Bob-san has set forth, but I have to admit I see the other point of view as well.

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:31 pm
by Pockets
Wasn't johnmonkey the one who announced getting married on the board a year or so ago? Maybe it was his wife that found his account and decided his posts needed to disappear. My boyfriend sometimes gets a little exasperated at one of the other forums that I enjoy reading and posting on. As I work from home, he feels that I would get more done if I didn't go there so much. For my part, he has nothing to be jealous of (and that hasn't been any of it from him) and one can only be so efficient with ones time.

Lastly, most boards are so active, that they purge their older threads on schedule. Only four boards that I am members of never purge their threads at all. One is the board that my boyfriend and I met on, but it's a board slightly bigger than this one and at the moment it's offline. Sometimes the owner forgets to pay his hosting or something. But I've long ago saved the important posts to disk.

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:18 pm
by I65
I don't see the big deal with someone deleting their posts. Since this was kind of a "rule after the fact, I personally don't see why johnmonkey should be banned for actions he took before the rule was in place, JMHO.

As for the rule being in place now, Bob-san is the host, and can put whatever rules into play that he wants. Anyone that does not like this rule going forward, has the option of not posting here.

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:05 am
by hull_street
I'd have to agree with the consensus here. John had his reasons for doing what he did, and I don't think we should go against his wishes. Whether it was for his wife, or his personal safety, or just because he wanted to try to exercise some power over the board, shouldn't matter. John has made a few enemies on other boards, and they do occasionally track him down to this one, so I suspect his reasons for deleting his old posts are much better than our reasons for wanting to keep them. I say just let it go.

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:53 pm
by preciouswhile
Ithildriel65 wrote:I personally don't see why johnmonkey should be banned for actions he took before the rule was in place, JMHO.
I have to agree with this, but I think it's moot since it's pretty clear JM doesn't want to have anything to do with this site anymore <shrug>

However: this is from the agreement that you have to accept before registering:
You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit.
It also says something about agreeing to having your posts stored in a database. Undeleting and/or restoring data from that database counts as an edit in my mind. And since bob is the owner of that database I would guess he is the owner of all data in it (since there is no clause to the contrary in the agreement).

Bob, if you are savvy with php maybe you should edit the agreement to include what you've just said in here about only making reasonable deletes/edits?

In any case, one shouldn't ever be putting information on the Internet one might want to take back later. IT NEVER FORGETS.

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:03 pm
by Pockets
All of johnmonkey's and thesoundofonemanlaughing's posts are available through cached google pages. I've read some of them, and they don't seem to be anything to be ashamed of. :?

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:52 pm
by I65
Pockets wrote:All of johnmonkey's and thesoundofonemanlaughing's posts are available through cached google pages. I've read some of them, and they don't seem to be anything to be ashamed of. :?
I doubt if it is about being ashamed as much as erasing your existence. I did the same thing recently, and deleted my self from all the sites I post at except for this one...of course no one cared enough about me to stalk me to here.

Good fortune to johnmonkey wherever life may lead him.

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:59 pm
by Bob_san
I appreciate the feedback and I think given what happened it is an important topic to discuss. If I had had the time and technical knowledge to restore all the posts before reactivating the forum then it would have gone largely unnoticed.

My initial post above does not cover my appended guidelines which are in the other posting and more detailed. I want to reiterate that I do not have anything against people editing or deleting a few posts here and there especially if they are personal in nature and someone thinks twice. However as a caveat I also suggest that people take steps to ensure anonymity if they post very personal things. I think one of the strengths of this forum is that people feel free to get personal and share and that's an important facet here.

I don't want to create guidelines for a forum that are too detailed. Instead what I would prefer is to be loose and let the community create them as an organic thing. However some guidelines are unspoken and sometimes do not even occur to be thought of until after something has happened. This is not a legal or corporate or goverment entity that creates rules and regulations and grandfathers things in after the fact. Therefore I am not grandfathering in johnmonkeys actions or any other incident which may occur that would cause a new guideline to be in place. People have been here long enough to see how this forum runs anyway.

Again, my problems with his actions are several. One is that he did not explain to me what the problem was even after I repeatedly asked him. I have had numerous people PM me about stuff at times and none of that is ever placed in a public domain. Therefore I cannot understand the motivation behind it and with no understanding of that can only have a reaction of great anger that this forum I created for discussion of a film I love has been to some extent destroyed on a fundamental level with regards to as I said its artistic and literate expression and exploration. JM wasnt just a person who came in and threw in a few posts here and there about the movie. He was one of the top five (if not 3 or 4) contributors and much of the content with regards to the discussion and exploration of the film is because of him. And now much of that is gone and therefore as I said I feel it ruins the integrity of the forum. To me, without any other explanation, this is a betrayal of unspoken covenants that human beings agree to and engage in when participating in a forum such as this.

If he felt he wanted to delete his personal posts about his marriage etc then ok fine. However I do not want to see people mass deleting posts that ruin the core content of this forum, the discussion about the film. I am going to do my best to restore all the posts that were deleted. From a technical standpoint I cannot pick and choose which posts are restored and which are not. From a personal standpoint given that I have no idea why he did this or what he objected to, I cannot pick and choose what to restore. If later on he asks me to delete some personal posts then that is fine. A few times I have had people PM me asking me to delete entire topics they started but were later embarrased about and I have done that. I can change the name that is on the posts also if necessary or asked.

Now, on a sidebar about personal posts and later deleting them, how would people feel if after creating such a compelling saga, silvermoon came back and decided to delete the entire thing? I mean it seems to me that he is completely anonymous, no one knows who he is so there is no problem there. However it would be a great loss to this forum and the people who were involved and the people who subsequently read it and get something helpful out of it in their own lives. These discussions are one of the unintended but great consequences of creating this forum that I had no idea would happen!

In the end, I don't think this is going to be an issue for most people, but since it did happen then it is being addressed. I would say in the future please contact me personally if you have any questions or issues about yours or other people's posts. Thanks! Now please go back to enjoying the forum!

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:39 pm
by Pockets
It's too bad that johnmonkey didn't ask for name changes to his two accounts instead of deleting all of his posts. :(

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:17 pm
by Bob_san
drabthehours wrote: Bob, if you are savvy with php maybe you should edit the agreement to include what you've just said in here about only making reasonable deletes/edits?
I'm not that saavy with it yet but I can find things and modify/change them which is what I have now done with the user agreement.